[Formula8]

didn't wanna jack 165th's thread more than I already have so started a new topic: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=666876

[Rack776]

WOW I had no idea of the quality issues of these decals,
I work in a sign shop and I could not imagine cutting out decals
for a car by hand with an xacto knife

I had thought buying professional decals would be better than
making my own at work.....guess I was wrong.

Thanks for the heads up guys, I look foward to seeing
correct & high quality stripes.

Businesses need to know its not ok to charge full price
and deliver poor quality while keeping bigger & bigger profits.

Glad to see someone stick it to them and deliver a better product!

[Formula8]

Any updates? Are you planning on doing the lettering as well or just the stripe? The reason I ask is that I just had some time to jump back on my car and put on the rear spoiler decal. After spending the time researching out placement and getting it perfectly aligned, I peeled off the covering film only to be reminded that blue cars came with blue striping in the letters . It looks like crap on a red car so it came off after looking at it sideways for all of about 60 seconds.

My car is not a T/A so maybe I will just leave it naked.

[165th]

Hi Formula8, at this point I'm only concentrating on stripes, but when all the kinks are sorted out, there's no reason not to add the letters as well.

Here's an update on this project. The artwork is great, dimensions are spot on. The only hitch so far on artwork is getting the gradient (dot fade) that's on the blue stripe.

Regarding the stripes themselves, since they are printed on clear vinyl, printing capabilities are limited. Two different digital printing companies have come up short when it comes to the gloss level. The black and white does not have the correct gloss, and the white color is limited to white, no cameo's.

We're currently researching other printing methods besides digital printers. If anyone has any suggestions or tips, they are welcomed here.

[Rack776]

Originally Posted by 165th

Hi Formula8, at this point I'm only concentrating on stripes, but when all the kinks are sorted out, there's no reason not to add the letters as well.

Here's an update on this project. The artwork is great, dimensions are spot on. The only hitch so far on artwork is getting the gradient (dot fade) that's on the blue stripe.

Regarding the stripes themselves, since they are printed on clear vinyl, printing capabilities are limited. Two different digital printing companies have come up short when it comes to the gloss level. The black and white does not have the correct gloss, and the white color is limited to white, no cameo's.

We're currently researching other printing methods besides digital printers. If anyone has any suggestions or tips, they are welcomed here.

As far as the gloss level has anyone sugested using an overlaminate over the printed inks?
It would add gloss and protect the finish.

I worked as a screen printer for about 5 years and I am now at a digital print shop,

The only way I could think of to do them 100% correct is by screenprinting them,
the inks are opaque and I belive thats how they were originally done by the factory.

IMHO digital inks cant compete with inks that are mixed like paint with pigments.
digital printers will always leave a certain ammount of banding in the image.
Heck the original decals were made in the 1970s with 50s & 60s technology.

If someone was willing to sacrafice a set of NOS decals or remove the transfer tape
I wonder if the original dot pattern could be scanned or photographed on an old copy camera
Blue will not photograph on a B&W copy camera, the right exposure might blow away the blue &
leave only the black dots & border.
Care would have to be taken to make sure the decal was to scale & not distorted.

If a super high res scan was made of an original stripe it might be possible to set up a new computer file
for the dots by tracing circles over a sample area and repeating the pattern, the rounded corners would be the hardest part to set up.

The trick is finding a guy with the ability to print with large format screens and be willing to do small runs and be able to mix UV resistant inks.
Also be willing to work with the customer and not just say...thats what you get take it or leave it.
I cant imagine S&S or Phoenix are the only place with the equipment to do the job.

The place I was at used to do specialty printing for old pinball game restorations, model train decals, and other odd ball small run stuff.
We once made decals for a 70s dodge "little red truck" the repo decals did not have the correct metallic gold so we were hired to
make "exact" copies of the originals, we even used a clear UV resistant top coat.
I even reproduced an entire set of water slide decal engine warning lables for a show winning restored 1940s John Deer tractor.

The bad news is The customer service & quality level went down hill fast.
I had the capability to do these stripes but the owners view on customer service became so poor so I left,
it was embarassing to have friends screwed over on jobs I recommended my own shop to do. I left 7 years ago.

A local college art department might be able to help if they have the printing equipment and sometimes they take on small jobs to raise money.

The printing vaccum table and printing screens & inks are easy to come by for home use,
its the large screen exposure equipment and art work that would be tough to make at home.

I have the knowledge & personal ability to make the stripes
.....just not the equipment or space.

Good luck with the project!

[165th]

Originally Posted by Rack776

As far as the gloss level has anyone sugested using an overlaminate over the printed inks? It would add gloss and protect the finish.

Great idea, I'll ask the printers.

Originally Posted by Rack776

The only way I could think of to do them 100% correct is by screenprinting them,
the inks are opaque and I belive thats how they were originally done by the factory.

IMHO digital inks cant compete with inks that are mixed like paint with pigments.
digital printers will always leave a certain ammount of banding in the image.
Heck the original decals were made in the 1970s with 50s & 60s technology.

This is exactly the direction I'm now going. All feedback has been similar to your comments here.

Originally Posted by Rack776

If someone was willing to sacrafice a set of NOS decals or remove the transfer tape
I wonder if the original dot pattern could be scanned or photographed on an old copy camera

The art designer has sample gradient patterns, but just is having a tough time replicating the pattern. I'll suggest scanning and copying over the scan or digitizing it. I have on loan from a member here the best NOS stripe available for a pattern, it's a very early '70 NOS stripe for a blue car, so it's white, but instead of solid black, it's dot fade. Very interesting stripe, but perfect for mimicking the dot fade.

Originally Posted by Rack776

I have the knowledge & personal ability to make the stripes
.....just not the equipment or space.

Good luck with the project!

The knowledge shared here is extremely valuable. Thank you! I sent you a PM also. Maybe you can help with any questions that may come up with the screen printers based on your experience.

[Norwood]

Exactly what width is the roof stripe?

[ScottD3]

Great thread. My thoughts on PG well I am with Norwood on that one.

[165th]

Originally Posted by Norwood

Exactly what width is the roof stripe?

18 3/8"

[FrankieT/A]

As previously mentioned I have the same color car on a '71. I have had the lettering reproduced by a company that stripes police and sheriff vehicles. They seem to be exact except for the blue was replaced by red. I had the white portion matched and basically picked the red. This car is driven often so originality was not important.

[Formulabruce]

I have a 72 factory bird for a white TA #481953 and the box the whole kit came in if this helps anyone

long ago my 72 got paint remover spilled on it ,at a dealership, so they bought a kit in 78, used all but the nose bird.

[Norwood]

Greg, Just bringing this to the top to see if anything is happening...

[bossbirdta]

i've been meaning to do the same thing....

[FirebirdScar]

I am interested in this as well.

[165th]

Hi everyone, regarding the stripes development, I've reached out to a third printer, this time in California, who has new equipment on the market that may work in digital. As I previously mentioned, it does not look favorable for digital media, and that would have been ideal for the botique one or two prints at a time. If relegated to screen printing, then it will likely become more of a volume production to keep the price down.

A few distractions such as work, travelling to POCI and helping my parents lug home a '67 428 2+2 has kept me from being as diligent as I could but I'll provide an update after the proofs from California have printed.

Thanks for the continued interest!

[165th]

Hi, I've got some great news regarding the stripes development.

First, a bit of bad news: After researching a third digital printer that did not produce any better results, I'm resolved to producing the stripes utilizing a screen print process. This is bad news because digital printing would have been much more versatile for custom runs and small quantities.

Instead, the stripes will be printed utilizing a screen print process This is in keeping with the way the original stripes were produced, and how the current reproductions are made.

Thank you Rack776, and others here who have provided great insights and other information as well as NOS stripes to use as patterns.

Now the good news:
I've found a company that will take a personal approach to the project, and will allow small runs. I'm not sure how small just yet as I'm getting proposals based on different volumes.

In addition to the small runs, this company can machine contour cut the stripes as well ensuring perfect clear edge clearance.

Now, the last bit of decision making for the black/white stripes for a blue car is what color white to use? The pictures here show the proof stripe that is done in 'white'. There have been posts here discussing whether the white should be 'Polar' white, or 'Cameo' White to match the shaker. I'd say the white in the proof definitely favors Polar white. It seems the current reproduction has some pink in it, maybe favoring 'Cameo' white. The stripes can be printed in any pantone color as long as a pantone color code is given.

The next stage of the project will be to complete the design of the hood stripe. I've held off on that expense until I was sure I could print high quality stripes, so I used the artwork for the rear deck and roof stripes for this effort to date. By the time the hood stripe design is finished, I'll have a good idea of the cost and number of units that will be produced.

Below are a few pictures of the new screen print proof.
Pic 1 is the new screen printed proof.
Pic 2 same
Pic 3 is the proof on the bottom, and the current reproduction with a poorly cut edge on top.
Pic 4 same
Pic 5 on the bottom is the original digital proof that is shown in earlier posts here, in the middle is the current reproduction and on top is the new screen print proof.

Here is a link to some high resolution pictures of the new proof:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gregsm/...7626629014035/
_

[Norwood]

Great news....My shaker is already painted Polar White if I get a vote

[FunctionalShaker]

I say, go Polar White.

[wwilder9]

I vote Original

[njsteve]

I vote blue (for the white car owners) :-)