[69goatboy]

Originally Posted by Don Keefe

If in fact, this was a board member, I'd feel a lot better about the situation.

If you click the link in post #2, it seems that this is being sold by a board member: (muscle collector).

From your earlier post, I also find it strange to NOT accept cash. If all is legit, I'm sure there's a reason, but it doesn't seem right to implicitly state: NO CASH.

[ponjohn]

I've seen worse.

[GRX]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

The car looks bogus to me......the spoiler on the deck lid is
a Judge hardtop spoiler. Why would a car that has been sitting forever that is real have
a hardtop spoiler on it....BOGUS

What is a hard top spoiler?

[Wick]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

The car looks bogus to me......the spoiler on the deck lid is
a Judge hardtop spoiler. Why would a car that has been sitting forever that is real have
a hardtop spoiler on it....BOGUS

I guess the PHS and build sheet are lying.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by 69goatboy

...it seems that this is being sold by a board member: (muscle collector)...

Based on his PY presence muscle collector seems like a good guy IMO.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Seller is a long time and active member on PY.
Has a HUGE collection of MuscleCars from way back. Mostly Pontiacs.
Mostly the more prestigious pedigree types.

He's been slowly thinning the herd for past couple years.
Its a Real JVert. Not pristine tho.
And a real auction by the real owner.

I agree with the spoiler being a hardtop version.
But looks like it has been on there since before he bought it.
Car is unchanged since he dragged it out of the northeast many years ago.

Ram3 JVerts - even in this economy era - bring 125-175 everytime if restored nice.
Some ask/expect even way more.
Up to a certain point of entry - its worthy of full resto.

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by Don Keefe

I'd be a little wary of the $5,000 non-refundable deposit. He won't accept cash? Really? I'd be pushing to see it in person because even if this car is known to the collector car community, it is pretty easy to hijack someone's eBay account and post a scam auction with someone else's photos. It happened to me when I sold off my 303 Ram Air V engine back in 2005. Someone ran a scam listing using my photos and info. Fortunately, you guys on the PY Board came to my rescue and the listing was pulled. Caveat Emptor!

hey don, this isnt hijacked it is my car and no i wont accept cash from anyone, not even you. the only safe way for sure is bank wire transfers.

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

It's not 1979, Blackcat. I've seen much worse condition extremely rare Pontiacs restored & owners came out fine as the car appreciated in value. The quality of the craftsmanship in the restoration means a lot.

Referring to the auction as a "Scam" is a low blow to the board member who has this car on eBay.

as for the opinion of "black cat" i wouldnt give a rip what that thing says its opinion means absolutely nothing to me. typical person running their mouth about something they probably cant afford anyway.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Blackcat

The plain fact that the price is way more than its real value has me saying "Scam!"
Sorry folks but a piece of junk is never worth 5k deposit in my book.

I'll buy every single one of those you can bring me and will travel anywhere in the country to get them for that price.

If you can't restore this car and still have profit in it at this price you're doing it wrong!

[muscle_collector]

Originally Posted by gtohurstjudge

The car looks bogus to me......the spoiler on the deck lid is
a Judge hardtop spoiler. Why would a car that has been sitting forever that is real have
a hardtop spoiler on it....BOGUS

bogus, that is the original spoiler that came on the car. want to see bogus, go look in your garage

[Steve Hoog]

WAY TOO FUNNY!!!!

Don Keefe you are taking cheap shots at a man that sells the rarest cars to people like Milt Robison and Kevin Suydam, unreal!!!

[Don Keefe]

Originally Posted by muscle_collector

hey don, this isnt hijacked it is my car and no i wont accept cash from anyone, not even you. the only safe way for sure is bank wire transfers.

Fair enough- your car, your rules. You can understand my caution though, having been targeted in an eBay scam.

[Don Keefe]

Originally Posted by Steve Hoog

WAY TOO FUNNY!!!!

Don Keefe you are taking cheap shots at a man that sells the rarest cars to people like Milt Robison and Kevin Suydam, unreal!!!

I did no such thing. Perhaps you should go back and read what I wrote. I simply said that I would need some verification to make sure it was a legitimate listing before I handed over any money. I've been in the business long enough to know where to stop short of slander. Perhaps you should extend the same level of caution.

[Steve Hoog]

Don of course you couldn't have known who it was in real life; and maybe you still don't, that is why it was so funny.

I can't blame you for not back reading the link in post #2 because I certainly don't do that all the time myself; not that it would have helped you identify the seller. I was just talking to musclecar_collector on the way home tonight on the phone about our ID's on here and why so few of us use our real names; but as discussed with him in the early forum years so many of us didn't really give a serious thought to an ID, we were just horsing around on the internet and probably never conceived it would turn into all this.

If you don’t know who he is yet; maybe he will tell you, and maybe that still won’t mean anything to you. But you state to have been in this business a long time; so chances are you do know.

I knew this car was being brought out of storage for sell several weeks ago; so I had insight the general public did not know, not that it’s a great secret or anything

Now let me clear some things up for you. The seller in his selling details is in fact being as careful as he possibly can to protect himself against the exact scoundrels you referred to. If you were to take reference from Milt, Kevin, or any of the other thousands of car enthusiast musclecar_collector has done business with over the last four decades I think you would be hard pressed to find one negative review.

For the car, well it is an ugly rolling tub of nasty blue!!! I am not even sure I have seen an uglier Judge in my decades of fooling around with these cars; I thought that the very first time I saw it and still do. BUT I am having a hard time understanding why so many are talking negative about its condition as I have seen far worse restored many times! This thing doesn’t even need a trunk pan and that is the first thing to go on these cars 9 of 10 times. And aside from the heater core leak rust (probable cause anyway), there seems to be little structure damage. And the frame! Holly cow I bet a thousand restored muscle cars could only dream of having such a solid frame; but hey that’s just my opinion.

So take a seat and let’s see if it gets a good home.

[Don Keefe]

Originally Posted by Steve Hoog

Don of course you couldn't have known who it was in real life; and maybe you still don't, that is why it was so funny.

I can't blame you for not back reading the link in post #2 because I certainly don't do that all the time myself; not that it would have helped you identify the seller. I was just talking to musclecar_collector on the way home tonight on the phone about our ID's on here and why so few of us use our real names; but as discussed with him in the early forum years so many of us didn't really give a serious thought to an ID, we were just horsing around on the internet and probably never conceived it would turn into all this.

If you don’t know who he is yet; maybe he will tell you, and maybe that still won’t mean anything to you. But you state to have been in this business a long time; so chances are you do know.

I knew this car was being brought out of storage for sell several weeks ago; so I had insight the general public did not know, not that it’s a great secret or anything

Now let me clear some things up for you. The seller in his selling details is in fact being as careful as he possibly can to protect himself against the exact scoundrels you referred to. If you were to take reference from Milt, Kevin, or any of the other thousands of car enthusiast musclecar_collector has done business with over the last four decades I think you would be hard pressed to find one negative review.

For the car, well it is an ugly rolling tub of nasty blue!!! I am not even sure I have seen an uglier Judge in my decades of fooling around with these cars; I thought that the very first time I saw it and still do. BUT I am having a hard time understanding why so many are talking negative about its condition as I have seen far worse restored many times! This thing doesn’t even need a trunk pan and that is the first thing to go on these cars 9 of 10 times. And aside from the heater core leak rust (probable cause anyway), there seems to be little structure damage. And the frame! Holly cow I bet a thousand restored muscle cars could only dream of having such a solid frame; but hey that’s just my opinion.

So take a seat and let’s see if it gets a good home.

I don't know who musclecar_collector is personally but perhaps our paths have crossed at some point.

Being from Upstate New York, I have seen cars much worse get top-notch restorations, so the condition wasn't a big deal for me.

I understand the need for caution- I have done sales with PayPal as a down payment and a wire transfer for the balance and that worked out fine. PayPal works fine up to $2,000 but gets less efficient to use above that figure.

I do hope it goes to a good home and gets restored. Thank you for the clarification- it is appreciated! :-)

[Blackcat]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

It's not 1979, Blackcat. I've seen much worse condition extremely rare Pontiacs restored & owners came out fine as the car appreciated in value. The quality of the craftsmanship in the restoration means a lot.

Referring to the auction as a "Scam" is a low blow to the board member who has this car on eBay.

Nope its not. But again I'm also entitled to my opinions just as you are. When someone bids that much on a hulk of a car either its been shill bidded up or people are nuts. This is not a hemi cuda, Shelby KR. A friend sold his completely restored 71 GTO convertible 4-speed with correct everything with less than 27k on the odometer (Actual miles). The car was stunning and more rare than a Judge convert. He got 30k for it at auction and that was way more than ever expected.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Blackcat

Nope its not. But again I'm also entitled to my opinions just as you are. When someone bids that much on a hulk of a car either its been shill bidded up or people are nuts. This is not a hemi cuda, Shelby KR. A friend sold his completely restored 71 GTO convertible 4-speed with correct everything with less than 27k on the odometer (Actual miles). The car was stunning and more rare than a Judge convert. He got 30k for it at auction and that was way more than ever expected.

Not true: 1971 production of GTO convertibles 678 total - 508 Autos w/400 & 79 manual w/400
1969 Judge Convertibles 108 - 74 RA III manuals, 5 RA IV manuals & 29 RA III autos.

[Blackcat]

You check the breakdown between the 4-speed and 3-speed?
Guess you kind of missed the point in the money paid and the condition of the supposd rare car.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Blackcat

You check the breakdown between the 4-speed and 3-speed?

It's not published but I doubt it's less than 29.

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by Blackcat

Guess you kind of missed the point in the money paid and the condition of the supposd rare car.

....and you're missing the reality here - it costs the same to restore two convertibles, a 69 & a 71. If the 71 will get you 30k restored numbers matching and the 69 will get you between 125 & 190k restored with a NOM motor, which one is worth more unrestored?