[The Boss]

Originally Posted by transam1972

a number of years back I had a car mag. where a orange G.T.O. owner had a RA V in his car...are there any similiarites in the RA IV and 455 H.O. to the RA V?

That was probably the Purely PMD Judge with the RA V in it and the special hood tach.

http://www.pontiacsonline.com/Shift%...ood%20Tach.htm


...and no, the RA V resembles the Ford tunnel port more than it does a Pontiac round port.

[1971WARBIRD]

Originally Posted by transam1972

a number of years back I had a car mag. where a orange G.T.O. owner had a RA V in his car...are there any similiarites in the RA IV and 455 H.O. to the RA V?

very very few. some bolts, and bolt on parts would interchange, but that was about it. block, crank, rods, cam, heads, intakes all different between the RA V and anything else.

[transam1972]

just rumour...no RA Vs could have made there way into a T/A..we are talking 2nd gen. body?

[johnta1]

Try this for some RA V articles:

Ram Air V

[trishieldchief]

A 71-2 455 HO TA would be stronger on the street, in street block to street block racing ie 1/8 mile than a 70 RAIV TA.

In the 1/4 mile, the 455 HO TA will be out front ahead of RAIV TA for the first 1/8 mile then run down and passed by the 70 RAIV TA a little after 1/8th mile mark in a 1/4 mile drag race.

A RAIV needs deep gears and needs to be sitting on top of its camshaft at 6000 rpm to make power, all of which is happening at top end of the 1/4 mile drag strip.

[starlightblack]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I don't buy into all the talk about Chevrolet or any of the other corporates in a plot to keep Pontiac at bay, that's a bunch of hogwash and likely just pontiac lovers sitting around and bench racing and coming up with conspiracy theories, lol.

Yes, this "perspective" has snowballed over the decades to become entrenched in the minds of those who want to believe it. It's BS. Maybe a bedtime story some of us Poncho disciples tell ourselves to deal with the fact that Pontiac got caught with its pants down for the 1970 model year by dicking around with the soon-to-be failure RA V program so late into the '69 year they had no mountain motor offering ala W30, LS6 etc.

Corvette as a sacred cow? No. Chevrolet gutted the 'Vette itself by killing the LS6 and LS7 motors that were in development for '70. That 390 horse LS5 in the '70 'Vette was strong but no match for an LS6 Chevelle or a Ram Air IV GTO. It was waaayy over-rated at 390, never made that power on any day of the week. When everybody went all in for model year 1970, Corvette as a car and Pontiac as a division folded. They tried to make up for it in 1971, but nobody was interested anymore as the performance market had begun to dry up. Only 188 9.0:1 LS6 Corvettes made that year - they sold thousands of nasty Tri-Power big block vettes 24 months previous.

[tjtjwdad]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I don't buy into all the talk about Chevrolet or any of the other corporates in a plot to keep Pontiac at bay, that's a bunch of hogwash and likely just pontiac lovers sitting around and bench racing and coming up with conspiracy theories, lol.

It wasn’t just to keep Pontiac at bay, it was to keep all GM cars at bay; to protect the performance of the top performing Corvette of that respective model year.

Through the years I've read from many sources, that GM had an internal policy that no production car could have more than 1HP for every for every 10 lbs of the curb weight of the car...except the Corvette. That wasn’t lifted until the 1970 model year when 7.5L engines were allowed in the A-body line; and it wasn’t until the compression ratios dropped in 1971 that they were allowed in the F-Body line [although I’m not aware if any 454’s were put in a production Camaro, at any time]. Truth be told; in addition to insurance issues, this also attributed to odd-ball HP/TQ numbers of many GM engines of that era. I’ve also read that the Pontiac Fiero’s performance was held in check as not to compete with the Corvette; and most recently, the CTS-V was detuned [ever so slight] for the same reason.

Since 1976; the last year each GM Division’s engines were exclusive to their own line it has become a moot point, IMO. But, with very few exceptions GM has kept the lid on any GM production car out performing the Corvette and they’ve been pretty efficient about it too. There may be others but some that have slipped thru that come to mind are;

- 1973-74 Pontiac SD 455
- 1986-88 Buick GN(X)
- 1989 Trans Am (20th edition)
- 1992-93 GM Cyclone and Typhoon.

With the exception of Cadillac, all others started consolidation starting in 1977. I may be wrong, but that sounds like GM protectionism to me for the Corvette to which Chevrolet benefits from.

[Judge273]

Since the topic is expanding to....

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...+engine+blocks

[starlightblack]

Originally Posted by tjtjwdad

It wasn’t just to keep Pontiac at bay, it was to keep all GM cars at bay; to protect the performance of the top performing Corvette of that respective model year.

Through the years I've read from many sources, that GM had an internal policy that no production car could have more than 1HP for every for every 10 lbs of the curb weight of the car...except the Corvette. That wasn’t lifted until the 1970 model year when 7.5L engines were allowed in the A-body line; and it wasn’t until the compression ratios dropped in 1971 that they were allowed in the F-Body line [although I’m not aware if any 454’s were put in a production Camaro, at any time]. Truth be told; in addition to insurance issues, this also attributed to odd-ball HP/TQ numbers of many GM engines of that era. I’ve also read that the Pontiac Fiero’s performance was held in check as not to compete with the Corvette; and most recently, the CTS-V was detuned [ever so slight] for the same reason.

Since 1976; the last year each GM Division’s engines were exclusive to their own line it has become a moot point, IMO. But, with very few exceptions GM has kept the lid on any GM production car out performing the Corvette and they’ve been pretty efficient about it too. There may be others but some that have slipped thru that come to mind are;

- 1973-74 Pontiac SD 455
- 1986-88 Buick GN(X)
- 1989 Trans Am (20th edition)
- 1992-93 GM Cyclone and Typhoon.

With the exception of Cadillac, all others started consolidation starting in 1977. I may be wrong, but that sounds like GM protectionism to me for the Corvette to which Chevrolet benefits from.

Yes, the +400 cubic inch vs. weight edict was excused for the Corvette, as was the multiple carburetion ban on GM cars after 1966. The Corvette benefited from GM favoritism because it was, and still is, the technology and performance flagship of the company. That's corporate policy. The topic of this thread is 1970-1971, not GM's year-over-year Corvette policy. In 1970, the Corvette's "straight-line" performance was compromised against other cars in the GM stable, in that regard its position of sacred cow for 1970 was thrown to the wind....notice I say again straight-line. But, make no mistake, the Corvette's overall performance envelope was unapproachable by any of the American cars of 1970 - it braked, handled, gripped, responded better than anything made in the USA and many made in Europe. It was not "outperformed". A 1970 LT1 350/370 horse is the most pleasurable true driver's car made during the era.

When the total performance envelope is considered, the Corvette also out-performed the other cars you have on your 70s and 80s list - each of them. But anyway I think we have gotten away from the original topic of Ram Air IV versus H.O. which I was enjoying. Apologies. P.S> no 454 ever installed in production Camaros by GM.

[HO Kenny]

Originally Posted by starlightblack

But, make no mistake, the Corvette's overall performance envelope was unapproachable by any of the American cars of 1970 - it braked, handled, gripped, responded better than anything made in the USA and many made in Europe. It was not "outperformed". A 1970 LT1 350/370 horse is the most pleasurable true driver's car made during the era.

When the total performance envelope is considered, the Corvette also out-performed the other cars you have on your 70s and 80s list - each of them.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I always figured the 455 HO was like an interim set up until the SD got going.....

If we can read anything into the UPC codes.......
SD 455......was LS2
455 HO.....was LS5

[Jack Peters]

One thing to consider. My car mph'd at 104 on the only squirrely run I ever got in. So the HO put out power with the heads. Not bad for an 066 cam and 3700 # car.
Obviously, Pontiac knew how to put together packages.
I discovered after the fact that the Tach that I was using was off by a K or more rpms. No idea what the rpms actually was.

['ol Pinion head]

Jack, was that with the original 14's or later with the G60x15's?

[transam1972]

If 2 Many can post a link, I will be eternally grateful...the best A body commercial ever!!!.....Long Live The Roundport!!!

[hobi]

Originally Posted by HO Kenny

JUST LOOK AT MISS CHATELAINE A CANADIAN MAGAZINE YOU NEED LOOK NO MORE DIG DEEP MY FROSTY FRIENDS: third:

[tjtjwdad]

Originally Posted by starlightblack

Yes, the +400 cubic inch vs. weight edict was excused for the Corvette, as was the multiple carburetion ban on GM cars after 1966. The Corvette benefited from GM favoritism because it was, and still is, the technology and performance flagship of the company.

Thank you.

[2manyT/A'S]

Originally Posted by transam1972

If 2 Many can post a link, I will be eternally grateful...the best A body commercial ever!!!.....Long Live The Roundport!!!

Might be easier said than done.....said commercial is on an old VHS tape...somewhere in this house....

Just had a quick look at Youtube and didn't see it there...

[transam1972]

it is on there,If I could only do what you do...like magic!!...1970 GTO humbler comercial

[starlightblack]

Originally Posted by transam1972

it is on there,If I could only do what you do...like magic!!...1970 GTO humbler comercial

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGC3d...oiqkg&index=15

[johnta1]

If we can read anything into the UPC codes.......
SD 455......was LS2
455 HO.....was LS5

Dyno test in 71, there are some in 1970 also.