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  #61  
Old 10-30-2008, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by b-man View Post
...There's a good chance I'll leave the stock LS3 cam in there. I want this engine to run well down low in the RPM range for good gas mileage, that's half the reason I'm doing this swap. Where I live the main roads are 50 MPH, 1600 RPMs at 50 MPH will be where I'm running a lot. I'm also considering warranty issues here, I doubt the warranty would stay in force if I tore into it to swap cams. Hopefully the oil pan swap won't be a warranty issue.

I'm pretty sure the best average power will be had with the stock cam.
50MPH!? You live in Canyon Country, right? Anyway, MY daily stretch of the 14 freeway (Mojave-Palmdale) is 75-80 or you're getting run over. The Corvette shows less than 1800 on the tach at 80MPH (and 30+ MPG). The stock LS3 is a real performer anywhere on the tach. some good long tube headers would only enhance that trait. I'd stay with the stock cam for a while and see how you like it.

If you've never driven the LS3, perhaps I could stop by sometime and you can wring the 'Vette out a little. I'd like to see your project anyway. Lemme know.

  #62  
Old 10-30-2008, 09:56 AM
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B-man-

Any idea what rear gears you're going to run?

John

  #63  
Old 10-30-2008, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 455HOGT37 View Post
50MPH!? You live in Canyon Country, right? Anyway, MY daily stretch of the 14 freeway (Mojave-Palmdale) is 75-80 or you're getting run over. The Corvette shows less than 1800 on the tach at 80MPH (and 30+ MPG). The stock LS3 is a real performer anywhere on the tach. some good long tube headers would only enhance that trait. I'd stay with the stock cam for a while and see how you like it.

If you've never driven the LS3, perhaps I could stop by sometime and you can wring the 'Vette out a little. I'd like to see your project anyway. Lemme know.
That sounds like fun!

I wonder what the 3300# (stock) Tempest will weigh after the changes?

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  #64  
Old 10-30-2008, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 455HOGT37 View Post
50MPH!? You live in Canyon Country, right? Anyway, MY daily stretch of the 14 freeway (Mojave-Palmdale) is 75-80 or you're getting run over. The Corvette shows less than 1800 on the tach at 80MPH (and 30+ MPG). The stock LS3 is a real performer anywhere on the tach. some good long tube headers would only enhance that trait. I'd stay with the stock cam for a while and see how you like it.

If you've never driven the LS3, perhaps I could stop by sometime and you can wring the 'Vette out a little. I'd like to see your project anyway. Lemme know.
My commute to work and back is just across town from Canyon Country to Valencia, so 50 to 60 is usually what I keep my speed to on the 50 to 55 MPH posted roads. I used to commute all the way to Simi Valley, the 2.56 gears that came in the Tempest were ideal at that time for easy 75 to 80 MPH cruising.

I'd be honored to be able to test drive your Corvette, I'll be in touch Mike.

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B-man-

Any idea what rear gears you're going to run?

John
John, I have a 1966 GTO 8.2" 10-bolt 3.36 posi rear, perfect gears for my needs. Just can't beat on it like I do the 9" rear in my GTO.

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I wonder what the 3300# (stock) Tempest will weigh after the changes?
Steve, the Tempest is (was) a little bit of a heavyweight now, 3780 with 3/4 tank of gas and a full ice chest in the trunk. The all-iron 455, TH400, B-body spindles & 12" discs, big sway bars and 5 heavy steel wheels (I do run a spare) all add up. A bare 17X8" wheel weighs 37#, with tire it weighs around 55 to 58#.

The LS3 will knock a good 250+ pounds off the front of the car, Im figuring the new weight will be close to 3500#. Thats still 100# lighter than my '02 WS6 convert.

  #65  
Old 10-30-2008, 10:38 PM
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Steve, the Tempest is (was) a little bit of a heavyweight now, 3780 with 3/4 tank of gas and a full ice chest in the trunk. The all-iron 455, TH400, B-body spindles & 12" discs, big sway bars and 5 heavy steel wheels (I do run a spare) all add up. A bare 17X8" wheel weighs 37#, with tire it weighs around 55 to 58#.

The LS3 will knock a good 250+ pounds off the front of the car, Im figuring the new weight will be close to 3500#. Thats still 100# lighter than my '02 WS6 convert.
I hear you loud and clear.

That was with 14x6's, bias plys, bench seat, 2 spd auto and all else stock.

Later, when I raced my old 455 at LACR, it was 3600#. WS6 swaybar, 7/8" bar in back, 15" Weld wheels, radials up front with 11" discs, 12 bolt in back, heavier springs, buckets, TH400, etc.

If that wasn't bad enough, I too put on a bunch .

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  #66  
Old 11-01-2008, 03:02 AM
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All of the engine mount pieces, oil pan, fuel tank + filter/regulator and radiator have arrived, the headers will be here soon. The parts gathering continues.

Considering purchasing this bracket kit from KWiK Performance, it mounts a Sanden A/C compressor up high on the passenger side.http://www.kwikperf.com/lsx_ac.html I'm assuming the Vintage Air setup will use some kind of Sanden compressor.

This will save me some work notching the frame for the low-mounted compressor when using the C6 Corvette accessories. For a little over $200 with shipping it looks like a good way to go, mostly aluminum construction.

Any input on this, Andrew?

On the same note, what would be the best way to buy the Corvette engine accessories I need? As an entire accessory package, or piece by piece?

I don't want to pay for the Corvette A/C bracket that I won't need if I go with the KWiK A/C brackets. But I want be sure to get the right GM alternator, power steering pump & reservoir as well as all the pulleys (tensioners, idlers, etc) needed to make the KWiK A/C brackets work.

Part #s for any of the Corvette pieces I'm going to need here would be much appreciated.

  #67  
Old 11-01-2008, 07:34 AM
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Regardless of which accy mounts you decide on, be certain it is an over the counter belt.

  #68  
Old 11-01-2008, 12:37 PM
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Regardless of which accy mounts you decide on, be certain it is an over the counter belt.
My plan exactly, any replacement parts must be readily available.

Here is a list of parts used for the OEM C5 Corvette accessory drive, copied from this thread on LS1tech.com:http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265717

Alternator (1)10246634 (production) 10316182 (service)
Alternator to bracket bolts (2) 24503609
Alt bracket to head bolts (3) 11516357
Alt bracket to head bolt (1) 11516356
P/S fluid reservoir bracket (1) 12555222
P/S fluid reservoir (1) 26046502
P/S reservoir hose (1) 26046910
P/S reservoir cap (1) 26022453
P/S pump (1) 26046503
P/S pump pulley (1) 12559890
P/S pump brace (1) 12555693 Same as f-body
P/S pump bolts (2) 14078896 Same as f-body
P/S pump bolts (2) 11515758 Same as f-body
Belt idler pulley (1) 12564401 Same as f-body
Harmonic balancer (1) 12560115
Belt tensioner assembly (1) 12559325
A/C belt tensioner assembly (1) 12560345 Same as f-body
A/C belt idler pulley (1) 12557334
A/C compressor bracket (1) 12556444
A/C compressor (1) 1137031
A/C bracket stud (1) 12556447
A/C bracket bolt (1) 11515768
A/C compressor bolt (1) 11516714
A/C compressor bolt (1) 12552922
A/C compressor bolt (1) 11509202
A/C compressor nut (1) 10255857

Another shorter list I copied here to make it easy for reference, from the same thread linked above. Here are the details for GM Parts new C5 Accessory drive kit:

Corvette C5 Accessory Mount Kit From GM: PN 19155066 (19155067 for LS2/7)~$675 Dealer Cost (individual prices listed are from gmpartsdirect.com)

12572188 Serp Belt $40.12 (w/S&H $47.64)
12569528 A/C Belt
12568181 Tensioner $56.57 (w/S&H $69.52)
12560345 A/C Tensioner
12557334 A/C Idler
1137031 A/C Compressor
12556444 A/C Compressor Bracket
15261472 P/S Pump $214.24 (w/S&H $254.41)
12555222 P/S Bracket hardware $4.42 (w/S&H $5.25)
12578068 Alt + P/S Pump Bracket $52.70 (w/S&H $62.58)
12555693 P/S Pump Brace $5.46 (w/S&H $6.48)
12559890 P/S Pump Pulley $12.22 (w/S&H $14.51)
10353440 Alternator $319.22
26046502 P/S Reservoir $29.64 (w/S&H $35.20)

19155067 list for '05 -'07 C6 that I copied from PacePerformance.com selling for $769.95 at Pace, it differs slightly from the list above (individual prices below again from gmpartsdirect.com):

12569286 Bracket - A/C comp
88958093 Comp - A/C
12595289 Tensioner - A/C comp brkt (need for KWiK A/C brkt?) $60.42 (w/S&H $73.37)
12579288 Belt A/C comp (1040mm)
12555222 Bracket Pwr Str Fluid Reservoir $4.42 (w/S&H $5.25)
12578067 Bracket - Alternator & Pwr Str Pump $52.70 (w/S&H $62.58)
15841234 Alternator $250.71 (w/S&H $314.41)
15261472 Pump - Pwr Str $214.24 (w/S&H $254.41)
12568997 Pulley- Pwr Str Pump $12.74 (w/S&H $15.13)
12555693 Brace - Pwr Str Pump, Frt $5.46 (w/S&H $6.48)
15907878 Hose - Pwr Str Reservoir w/clamps $15.08 (w/S&H $17.91)
26046502 Reservoir - Pwr Str Fluid $29.64 (w/S&H $35.20)
10317982 Cap - Pwr Str Reservoir $16.12 (w/S&H $19.14)
12569301 Tensioner - Drive Belt $57.57 (w/S&H $68.36)
12568996 Pulley - Belt Idler (Wtr Pump?) $31.17 (w/S&H $37.01)
12579229 Belt - Wtr Pump/Alt/Pwr Str Pump $24.60 (w/S&H $29.21)

The main non-A/C parts from the 19155067 drive kit listed in bold look about right, maybe they can delete the A/C compressor/bracket/belt or I'll just order them all individually.

Looking at what I think I need (items in bold), it comes to $369.64 including shipping and handling, no alternator or power steering pump.

I can buy the power steering pump for a little less at a generic parts store ($96.99 + $40 core at AutoZone), but is it really worth it instead of buying the brand-new GM parts that may last a lot longer? All of the alternators I see online are priced higher than the ones from GM.

Looking cheaper just to buy the entire kit at this point, even if I can't use the A/C compressor and bracket.

I have already purchased the A/C bracket kit from KWiK Performance, I'll use it to mount the Sanden compressor that will come with the Vintage Air setup.

As a side note, I checked on the price of a starter motor for this beast. Part # 89017847 for a reman from GM, best price I've seen so far is from gmpartsdirect.com at $219.55 + $45.00 core, plus $41.17 S&H for a total of $305.72. Clearly they make up for their lower prices with added shipping costs, but they're still cheaper by at least $100 over anywhere else I've seen so far.

  #69  
Old 11-01-2008, 01:12 PM
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hmm I thought you are supposed to use the F body brakets?

Maybe I missed something

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  #70  
Old 11-01-2008, 05:06 PM
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hmm I thought you are supposed to use the F body brakets?

Maybe I missed something
The Corvette accessories were recommended by Andrew, I'll take his advice since he's been down this road long before me. The F-body stuff puts the power steering pump down low right next to the steering box, sometimes requiring some grinding on the box. The 'vette accessory drive setup raises the pump up out of the way of the box.

Notes on the 19155067 Corvette accessory drive kit:

This Kit was originally designed for Corvette type engine bays and is shorter and wider than the 19155066 kit. Measurements from the crank center line are vertically 15.5" high, ddrivers side is 17.5" wide, and passenger side is 13" wide. •Deluxe Kit includes all the components and hardware necessary to install on an engine with air conditioning, including water pump, alternator, power steering pump and idler bracket. (Belt included).

Take a look, here's what the C5/C6 'vette drives look like:

Factory kit with low-mounted A/C compressor.



Same Factory setup with KWiK Performance A/C brackets added, looks like it's gonna fit nice.




  #71  
Old 11-01-2008, 09:47 PM
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Latest parts cost tally:

KWiK Performance A/C brackets - $197 + $9 ship
AC Delco 3231640 remanufactured starter - $295 + $17 ship*(includes $45 core charge)
AC Delco 11588456 starter bolts (2) - $7*
Dorman 620634 Radiator Fan Assy ('98 -'02 F-body) - $156 + $12 ship

Cost of the today's installment - $693

Total so far - $2737

I figured the starter cost is not out of line for what most would pay for a good mini-starter, it's not a bad buy after all. The fans are OEM designed and ready for the long haul, almost a perfect fit for my radiator core.

I was out measuring my '02 T/A and my Tempest, both cars are parked nose-to-nose in the garage. The width of the core on the '02 radiator matches up perfectly with the core width on my Griffin 24"w X 19"h aluminum universal radiator, the F-body twin-fan setup looks like it was custom-built for a '64 -'67 Pontiac A-body installation.

  #72  
Old 11-02-2008, 09:26 PM
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Bart,

I think the Kwik Performance bracket is a good idea. I was looking into it but after doing my shaker base, there is no room for the A/C compressor up top. Besides, every time I think I want A/C, I change my mind. I love driving with the windows down, even in very high heat.

The GM accessory drive kit wasn't shipping yet when I was putting the engine into the car. I used the same parts list as you are using from ls1tech. I got my apternator from Advanced Auto, online. It was a 140 or 145 AMP model listed under 2004 ZO6 as I recall. It was $225. The first one went out in less than a month. The replacement seems to be working fine. Just a pain in the ass. I got a reman power steering pump as well. To make short, in retrospect, I would go with the genuine GM parts. Get the kit and sell off the AC compressor and brackets. You should be able to get $200-$250 all day long.

Andrew

  #73  
Old 11-03-2008, 10:54 AM
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Bart,

You have your oil pan... Is it based on the Corvette unit? The reason I ask is because the Corvette piece has provisions for an external oil cooler (a little cover plate right above the oil filter). My Corvette had no cooler at all, but I was able to easily bolt on the Z06 parts because of the provisions. I'm sure your cooling will be better than the 'Vette, but it is nice to have the option...

  #74  
Old 11-03-2008, 02:13 PM
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Great list of parts and numbers. Bravo!

  #75  
Old 11-03-2008, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 455HOGT37 View Post
Bart,

You have your oil pan... Is it based on the Corvette unit? The reason I ask is because the Corvette piece has provisions for an external oil cooler (a little cover plate right above the oil filter). My Corvette had no cooler at all, but I was able to easily bolt on the Z06 parts because of the provisions. I'm sure your cooling will be better than the 'Vette, but it is nice to have the option...
The Autokraft pan that Bart is using will retain the oil filter in the stock location. There is a billet oil filter mount what is included with the pan and it has the ports that you speak of.

Andrew

  #76  
Old 11-03-2008, 05:07 PM
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Well that's good. The Corvette pan has the ports cast/machined right into the side near the filter. I don't know about the F-body pan, but I think other LSx engines have the oil filter all over the place (front, back, middle, etc) depending on the chassis. I know the LS2 engine in my 05 Holden "GTO" had no provisions for the cooler, and the pan shape was way different from the Corvette (and Yukon).

  #77  
Old 11-03-2008, 07:07 PM
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Sounds like things are really coming along! I'd love to get my hands on an LS3, they are getting pretty big numbers out of them with a cam. My little 224/224 cammed LS1 seems so wimpy. LoL

Your going to LOVE it BMan!

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  #78  
Old 11-03-2008, 07:12 PM
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Bart,

I don't know if you have a source for the factory parts you need, but Gene Culley at http://www.gmpartshouse.com/ provides very good service and will beat any price. He supports both the Corvette and LS1.com forums.

  #79  
Old 11-03-2008, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 455HOGT37 View Post
Bart,

I don't know if you have a source for the factory parts you need, but Gene Culley at http://www.gmpartshouse.com/ provides very good service and will beat any price. He supports both the Corvette and LS1.com forums.
Mike,

Thanks for the parts source, I'm shopping right now for the LS3 and the best price I've seen for it is $5800 plus $149 shipping and $769.95 for the Corvette accessory package.

I'll be putting a new PYPES 3” Crossmember-back System w/ X-pipe on the Tempest with 2-1/2" tail pipes. I'm downsizing the tail pipe size mainly to tone down the sound some, plus it will provide a bit more clearance around the rear axle for my lowered suspension.

Hopefully a free-flowing exhaust along with the Edelbrock LS1 swap headers will let the LS3 breathe well enough to gain another 30 HP. I really want to retain the low-RPM driveability of the stock cam, and unleash all of the performance potential of this well-engineered engine package with a good exhaust.

Thanks again to everyone for all the helpful advice and support.

  #80  
Old 11-07-2008, 08:51 PM
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Purchased the part # 19201992 LS3 crate engine (assembled in Canada ) today along with the 19155067 Corvette accessory drive kit.

I really can't wait too long to get my hands on the engine and accessories, a lot of the engine compartment fitting & assembly as well as the exhaust system installation can't be done without them here.

Latest parts cost tally:

GM 19201992 LS3 crate engine - $6,195 + $185 ship
GM 19155067 Corvette accessory drive kit - $770 + $16 handling

Cost of the today's installment - $7,166

Total so far - $9,903

Next task will be to pull the interior out of the car. The front & rear seats and rubber floor mat (the Tempest didn't have carpet from the factory) have to come out so I can get under the dash to install the air conditioning components that I still need to buy. I know that a lot of wiring will need to be done too so the inner firewall will need to be stripped bare. The seats need to be reupholstered and a new headliner installed.

The floorpans need a little attention, they will be coated with POR-15 rust preventive paint to stop the rust that has started underneath the rubber floor mat. Any water that gets underneath the rubber mat can't dry out very fast like wet carpet would so there's more than a bit of rust, all of these early A-body cars have leaky windshields and backlights.

I'll post a few pics of the engine and parts I've collected so far later next week when the engine arrives.

Still trying to decide which auto trans and converter to buy and who to buy from , but I'll figure that out pretty soon.

Moving forward.

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