[70ALLRIZE]

Hey everyone,

I'm wondering, is there such a thing as an "engineering master" carburetor? There's this website that claims that when Rochester was building Quadrajets with specific specs for each engine, that "after the design was completed, the master was created. The Engineering Master. This was said to be hand carried by the executives to the automotive company for final approvals."

The website went on to state, "Once approved and signed off, they were carried back to the plant, painted gold to indicate they were ready for production. Every single carburetor produced with that code that year had to meet the specification tolerances to that single Engineering Master. They were then placed in storage where they were to be kept forever. They should never be sold or leave the facility.

Is there any truth to this claim? Apparently, some of these "masters" were recovered after the factory closed. I have not been able to find any other references to these "engineering master" carburetors anywhere on the internet.

[unruhjonny]

I do not know about the extent of that quote, but I have seen some purported engineering master Quadrajets on eBay;
They should have extra stampings, and a tag if everything is on the up and up.

I was going to attach images, but apparently one is still on eBay HERE

[70ALLRIZE]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I do not know about the extent of that quote, but I have seen some purported engineering master Quadrajets on eBay;
They should have extra stampings, and a tag if everything is on the up and up.

I was going to attach images, but apparently one is still on eBay HERE

So you do believe there is such a thing as an "engineering master" quadrajet?

['ol Pinion head]

Examined half a dozen Engineering Master Q-jets in Dallas near 25 years ago. All were in a massive stock of Rochestor boxed old stock Qjets that had been bought out of the Rochestor plant. All the Pontiac Engr Master q-jers I looked at were definitely preproduction, had no normal roll stamped numbers. Instead there were sloppy stamped numbers, occasionally there were magic marker numbers on these carbs. None of the late 60's-early '70's "Engineering Masters" had a production finish on their airhorns or float bowls, instead decades old gold spray paint. No thanks, didn't need a wall hanger. Instead of spending a dime on any of the "Masters", bought that day quite a few never run original & Rochestor plant factory rebuilt Qjets '69-72 manual trans 400 Qjets, several '71 & 72 455ho Qjets, & a '73 455 4spd unit..

It wasnt long after I was reading the puffery by at least one national carb seller of his RA Qjet Masters. wanting an obscene amt for each one. FWIW, its not that far these days from his residence to the Quadrapower bunch that the auction Johhny is referring to has a '73 Master for sale.

[70ALLRIZE]

Originally Posted by 'ol Pinion head

Examined half a dozen Engineering Master Q-jets in Dallas near 25 years ago. All were in a massive stock of Rochestor boxed old stock Qjets that had been bought out of the Rochestor plant. All the Pontiac Engr Master q-jers I looked at were definitely preproduction, had no normal roll stamped numbers. Instead there were sloppy stamped numbers, occasionally there were magic marker numbers on these carbs. None of the late 60's-early '70's "Engineering Masters" had a production finish on their airhorns or float bowls, instead decades old gold spray paint. No thanks, didn't need a wall hanger. Instead of spending a dime on any of the "Masters", bought that day quite a few never run original & Rochestor plant factory rebuilt Qjets '69-72 manual trans 400 Qjets, several '71 & 72 455ho Qjets, & a '73 455 4spd unit..

It wasnt long after I was reading the puffery by at least one national carb seller of his RA Qjet Masters. wanting an obscene amt for each one. FWIW, its not that far these days from his residence to the Quadrapower bunch that the auction Johhny is referring to has a '73 Master for sale.

Thanks for the input. I don't need a wall hanger either, nor do I need a numbers matching RA Qjet, just looking for a reasonably priced ($400 - $600) era correct '69 - '72 Qjet that is rebuilt to specs to give the performance of a '70 RAIII 4-speed. Quadrajetpower.com is the website I was referring to. Are you familiar with these guys and are they trustworthy? They offer a custom build of a '70 - '72 Qjet spec'ed to Ram Air performance for around $500 - $600. Any thoughts on this?

[unruhjonny]

if you want one that looks correct please take the following under advisement;

- 1967-1970(49 state) Pontiac Quadrajets pretty much all look the same;
The biggest visual difference between these years is the lack of (67-68), or presence of (69-70) the rectangular front fuel bowl vent cover.

- The 1970 Pontiac California carbs are a little bit unique, but are near dead ringers for 1971 Quadrajets.

- 1967-1971 Pontiac Quadrajets all use a bolt on throttle cable attachment.

- 1972 Pontiac Quadrajets are near dead ringers for 1971 Pontiac Quadrajets, except they are the first ones to have a fixed throttle cable arm on the throttle arm.

- 1973/1974 Pontiac Quadrajets look very similar to the 1972 Pontiac Quadrajets, except they have an attached hot air choke mechanism.

- The first year where Pontiac Quadrajets came standard as the 800 cfm units was 1975 - those look quite different from the 1971-1974 Quadrajets.

- Pretty much any pre-smog Quadrajet can be made to run like any other, it mostly comes down to fuel metering, and how air/fuel was mixed.

[70ALLRIZE]

Thanks for the great info

[unruhjonny]

I'm happy to help.

[Formulabruce]

There was never engineering master Quadrajets for ever application. FACT. divorce choke machine test carbs didn't get a choke plate as the testing was for flow and jetting.

Back in 82 I knew a AC DELCO outlet manager well. One day we go to their giant old brick parts warehouse. In the thick layers of Dust we arrived on the 4th floor on a old open rickety elevator. Ac parts going back pre war were all over the place on one end. The other 1/2 was old shelving, Covered in boxes of Carbs. I only had a small list of carbs with me. This place verified what I had found working at a Pontiac dealership. There were brand new Q-Jets from 67 to around 76. Newer ones were in small branch stores for faster sale. Some of these new carbs looked as nice as the ones this " master carb " guy sells. Some had box stickers showing Additional Numbers these could be used on.
Other carbs were factory rochester rebuilds which had stickers too some on the carb covering the stamped number, some had the rebuild number rings installed on the bowl section. These were never as " gold" as they didn't used pre plated parts much on rebuilds. Many of the cores for rebuilds came from warranty AND the unfinished car lots.
Cliffs book will tell you all you need to know for what this guy does.
To think you are buying something that was on a stand, or in a glass case, to use on your car is just a fantasy.
I bought 8 carbs that day for 20 bucks each ( its 1982)
There was probably 250 more, mostly chevy and Pontiac.
I am sure by the late 90's these were wholesaled out and written off. I don't have any left... but some went on Nice Pontiacs.
So if it seems to good to be true......

[70ALLRIZE]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

There was never engineering master Quadrajets for ever application. FACT. divorce choke machine test carbs didn't get a choke plate as the testing was for flow and jetting.

Back in 82 I knew a AC DELCO outlet manager well. One day we go to their giant old brick parts warehouse. In the thick layers of Dust we arrived on the 4th floor on a old open rickety elevator. Ac parts going back pre war were all over the place on one end. The other 1/2 was old shelving, Covered in boxes of Carbs. I only had a small list of carbs with me. This place verified what I had found working at a Pontiac dealership. There were brand new Q-Jets from 67 to around 76. Newer ones were in small branch stores for faster sale. Some of these new carbs looked as nice as the ones this " master carb " guy sells. Some had box stickers showing Additional Numbers these could be used on.
Other carbs were factory rochester rebuilds which had stickers too some on the carb covering the stamped number, some had the rebuild number rings installed on the bowl section. These were never as " gold" as they didn't used pre plated parts much on rebuilds. Many of the cores for rebuilds came from warranty AND the unfinished car lots.
Cliffs book will tell you all you need to know for what this guy does.
To think you are buying something that was on a stand, or in a glass case, to use on your car is just a fantasy.
I bought 8 carbs that day for 20 bucks each ( its 1982)
There was probably 250 more, mostly chevy and Pontiac.
I am sure by the late 90's these were wholesaled out and written off. I don't have any left... but some went on Nice Pontiacs.
So if it seems to good to be true......

Man if only I could travel back in time ! I'm just wondering if the almost double priced carb is worth it. Thanks for the great info.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by 70ALLRIZE

Man if only I could travel back in time ! I'm just wondering if the almost double priced carb is worth it. Thanks for the great info.

if you're chasing a number, then the market is what it is - just be aware that there are unscrupulous individuals who pass off a car as something it isn't.

[Formulabruce]

Do these "engineering master" carbs look like they are spray painted Gold and missing chokes and stuff? NOPE ( the ones he has for you to drive, vs "collect" )
today's "Gold cad" ( Cadmium is super corrosive and harmful) look on any carb in last 40 years is made with
Sodium Bichromate, which comes from Russia. I used to buy it directly from a guy in Novosibirsk, Russia ( Siberia) who sold left over Russian supplies of it.
Small amounts you see of it for sale now are all Imported from that area, or were.
I will not comment on this guys carbs or numbers, but they are NOT any test mules with a paint job.
PS A Few rebuilt AC carbs we saw at the dealership, AND carbs I saw under warranty had NO Stamping on them.( stickers) The pad was blank so they used a new bowl area. Why? Screw damage.
This was true for open face alternators too for like 1 year, and we had some on the shelf 8 years later ( just the front, yeah imagine that)

[srmmmm]

Originally Posted by 70ALLRIZE

Thanks for the input. I don't need a wall hanger either, nor do I need a numbers matching RA Qjet, just looking for a reasonably priced ($400 - $600) era correct '69 - '72 Qjet that is rebuilt to specs to give the performance of a '70 RAIII 4-speed. Quadrajetpower.com is the website I was referring to. Are you familiar with these guys and are they trustworthy? They offer a custom build of a '70 - '72 Qjet spec'ed to Ram Air performance for around $500 - $600. Any thoughts on this?

Quadrajetpower.com did an excellent job of restoring my Q-Jet. As a student at General Motors Institute in the 70's, I was fortunate to have three roommates that all did their co-op out of Rochester Products. As an employee, they were permitted to purchase a replacement carburetor at factory cost for their GM car if there was any in inventory. Jim drove a 1971 Buick GS455 Stage-I so he bought a replacement carb that I purchased from him for my Firebird. $52 back in 1974! Quadrajetpower did a complete restoration, rejetted the primaries for my 63 cubic inch increase with the stroker crank, and performed their "stage 2" modifications. It looked brand new and the engine started on the second crank on the dyno with no modifications to the carb. I visited the shop when I dropped my carb off and can attest to his extensive inventory and excellent knowledge.