[jimib]

Can seat mounting brackets be “brazed” to the floor pans? I don’t have a welder.

I no longer have my Hobart 140, sold it when I sold my house. Now I live in an apartment with a private detached 1 car garage. The electrical outlets in this garage are 115 or 120 volts and most likely 15 AMPS. I don’t know of any welders that will work on 15 AMPS.

Next best option is perhaps a brazing kit to mount seat brackets to the floor pans. Would this work?

[dataway]

Oxy/Act brazing should work just fine if you can get the material clean enough. Also don't set any undercoating on fire.

Could be done on a 15amp circuit, lower settings, preheat the metal a bit, more passes. I use my little Lincoln MIG all the time plugged into a 15amp circuit as I move it around the vehicle. Has never popped the breaker .... I'm sure it would if I turned it all the way up.

[jimib]

Originally Posted by dataway

Oxy/Act brazing should work just fine if you can get the material clean enough. Also don't set any undercoating on fire.

Could be done on a 15amp circuit, lower settings, preheat the metal a bit, more passes. I use my little Lincoln MIG all the time plugged into a 15amp circuit as I move it around the vehicle. Has never popped the breaker .... I'm sure it would if I turned it all the way up.

Good answer, thank you.

[dataway]

Come to think of it, the little Lincoln has a notation on the settings chart that denotes at what settings a 20 amp circuit is required.

[mrennie]

I concur. While brazing will work for sure, the actual amount of heat and time that the metal will be hot and prone for stuff to catch fire or paint to burn will be higher than if using a MIG and doing multiple quick tack welds, with cooling time in between.

Also agree that no problem welding sheet metal with a 15A circuit. I used to have a 120V 20A MIG welder and occasionally used it on 15A circuits to weld things at friend's houses.15A would be no good for the max current settings, but for low current needed for 22-18 gauge tack welds, the breaker will never get warm enough to trip.

[jimib]

So 15 amps would not damage the welder? I guess a low heat setting and a slow wire feed may work?
I was looking on Amazon at brazing kits; the prices are about the same or maybe a little cheaper than a welding set up (welder, tank with CO2/Argon). Welding seams to be a stronger bond since two metals are fused together. I think with welding, the welder can be more precise of weld placement. I've welded before but have only seen brazing done.

[dataway]

For your application brazing is more than strong enough, however if you have no experience brazing I would avoid going out and getting a setup just for this repair. The learning curve is considerably steeper than MIG.

A 15 amp circuit is not going to damage the welder in the least. That seat bracket is about 14-16ga, and the floor probably 18-20ga ... should be able to use setting for 20ga, go a bit slower, weave a bit to get more heat in the metal. If you trip the circuit breaker .... reset it and turn the welder down a bit, or pause more between welds. Personally I've never tripped a 15 amp breaker using my old Lincoln SP100.

In general MIG welder settings are calculated around a certain travel speed .. usually higher speed than the average hobby welder, so going slower will allow you to use lower settings and still get the job done fine. .030" solid wire with gas, or .035 flux core should do the trick. Might be possible with .024 if you preheat some with a propane torch.

[jimib]

Originally Posted by dataway

For your application brazing is more than strong enough, however if you have no experience brazing I would avoid going out and getting a setup just for this repair. The learning curve is considerably steeper than MIG.

A 15 amp circuit is not going to damage the welder in the least. That seat bracket is about 14-16ga, and the floor probably 18-20ga ... should be able to use setting for 20ga, go a bit slower, weave a bit to get more heat in the metal. If you trip the circuit breaker .... reset it and turn the welder down a bit, or pause more between welds. Personally I've never tripped a 15 amp breaker using my old Lincoln SP100.

In general MIG welder settings are calculated around a certain travel speed .. usually higher speed than the average hobby welder, so going slower will allow you to use lower settings and still get the job done fine. .030" solid wire with gas, or .035 flux core should do the trick. Might be possible with .024 if you preheat some with a propane torch.

Thanks Dataway (and Mrennie)
I thought of hiring a mobile welder which is typically $100 per visit. For now, the seat brackets need to be welded to the floor pans but I will have other small projects. The necessary items are a welder, tank (with gas), and helmet; the most expensive items. A light duty welder would pay itself off quickly.
I'll look for something used.

[pfilean]

If you have the torches to braze it you could also weld it. Use coat hangers (the old wire ones not the now popular plastic) as filler. But you would still burn off a lot of paint and perhaps set some undercoating on fire just as with brazing. Get the MIG welder even if you have to rent it from someone,

[jimib]

Originally Posted by pfilean

If you have the torches to braze it you could also weld it. Use coat hangers (the old wire ones not the now popular plastic) as filler. But you would still burn off a lot of paint and perhaps set some undercoating on fire just as with brazing. Get the MIG welder even if you have to rent it from someone,

LOL. OK, I won't use plastic ones. (-:

Seriously though, I didn't know the wire hangers were material one could braze with. I thought it was some kind of special metal.

[dataway]

What pfilean is saying is that the same torches you braze with are also welding torches. (assuming you are talking about oxy\act) and can be used to fusion weld steel ( as opposed to braze weld with brazing rod). You can fusion weld with coat hangers, you can not braze with coat hangers.

Oxy\Act rigs are more commonly used for fusion welding (melting parent metal) as opposed to braze welding (adhering parent metal with brazing rod)

In the case of Oxy\Act WELDING, you can use metal coat hangers as the welding rod for non-critical welds. At least you could back in the day ... some of the coatings on modern metal coat hangers mean they have to be stripped first. But these days ... plenty of cheap welding rods on Amazon so no real need for coat hangers

When I was 20 years old I built a nicely working engine hoist out of old metal green house framing tube, coat hanger rod and a big hand crank boat winch.

[Sirrotica]

I learned to weld with a torch, and coat hanger wire back in the late 60s, and then moved onto brazing, which is more like soldering than welding. If you can master oxy/acetylene welding, welding with mig, and stick come fairly easy. I've never tig welded, but am fairly confident that I could pick it up fairly easily as you're just using an electric torch instead of a gas torch to melt the filler rod, and parent materials.

Just as anything, practice makes perfect, maybe someday I'll have a tig unit, but to this point I mostly fabricate with steel, and haven't needed the ability of joining materials such as aluminum together with welding. Oxy/acetylene, mig, and stick can do most anything I need to weld.

[jimib]

As I do a search on Amazon for welders, I came across gasless welders. Has anyone here used one? What are your thoughts?
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=welder&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

[Sirrotica]

I assume you're talking flux core wire feed, gasless mig?

FWIW, they are really difficult to weld thin metal with, plus they will leave a lot of weld spatter on your work when you are finished. I personally don't like welding with flux core, unless it's thick metal, and the weld appearance is inconsequential.

[pfilean]

Use the MIG (by definition that is with gas) as opposed to the flux cored no gas. The flux cored gasless has its place but not for your application. There are flux cored wires that require gas but lets keep this simple.

And for oxy/acc welding you can use the filler used for the MIG if you want to bother straightening it out. But we used to use the coat hangers all the time on mild steel. Saved time going to the welding supply and spending money on 36 inch straight lengths. But sure POed mothers when all the clothes in the closet were left on the floor.

[mrennie]

Flux core has the electrode negative compared to the ground which is positive. This has the effect of better penetration and more heat input to the weld, which as mentioned above is not good for welding sheet metal as it will be too hot and will result in lots of burn through and holes. Flux core is really hard to control on sheet metal.

MIG is the opposite polarity and results in less penetration and less heat, which is why it is better for thin sheet metal.

Both have their place...for nice appearing welds on tubing and angle iron that I don't need or want to grind, MIG is my preferred method. If welding outside, MIG is a no go as the wind usually blows the shielding gas away and you get porosity and crappy welds.

I have welded 3/16" square tubing with a 120V 20A using MIG and was able to break the joints apart with a large hammer...the beads looked great but there was not enough heat and penetration. Using the same welder with flux core, the weld was strong and could not be broken apart.

I would not recommend buying a machine that only does flux core...the added cost for a MIG greatly increases the usefulness and any MIG can also do flux core. Buying a gas machine also allows the possibility of welding stainless or aluminum with the right gas.

You can do a lot with a 120V MIG welder. Before I upgraded to a 240V machine, I had a 105A 120V MIG and did tons of sheet metal welding and when setup for flux core, welded lots of 3/16" tubing and angle iron with no issues.

I know that a budget can often be a factor, but if there is any way you can afford to buy a name brand welder like a Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart, parts & support will be much better. The ability to easily get consumables (like tips and nozzles) should not be overlooked.

[jimib]

Thank you all, good answers and...
No Gasless Welder for me. (-:

[LStathas]

Why even take a chance. A seat mount is a safety issue if it breaks away in a crash. I'd just bolt the mounts in if I had any question of brazing integrity.

[jimib]

Originally Posted by LStathas

Why even take a chance. A seat mount is a safety issue if it breaks away in a crash. I'd just bolt the mounts in if I had any question of brazing integrity.

I have given thought to bolting the seat mounts to the floor pans. I wouldn't need a welder.
Has anyone done this?

[ZeGermanHam]

Originally Posted by jimib

I have given thought to bolting the seat mounts to the floor pans. I wouldn't need a welder.
Has anyone done this?

You could go this route, but you would have to use a very wide and heavy gauge washer or plate steel on the underside to prevent the hardware from tearing through the floor pan in a collision scenario. It would be a similar approach to how race harnesses are installed in race cars.

Personally, I'm not a fan of brazing or bolting in the seat brackets. It's a safety issue, and needs to be done right.