[dataway]

So I have all the components for my 68 GTO AC ... it was obtained from a parts car about 30 years ago, working. Sitting on a shelf since then (compressor).
Already installed are a new condenser, dryer (dryer may need to be replaced again).

So I'll need R-12, hoses, clamps, probably oil etc. Looks like plenty of people selling R-12 locally.

Is there a brand/type R-12 I need, or something brand type I should avoid? (how many of those little cans?)

Is there someone that sells a kit that would include hoses, clamps and any other consumable or commonly replaced parts?

I'm going to give it one shot I think getting the OEM system up and running before going to something aftermarket ... or maybe two tries if it turns out I just need a new compressor.

If that doesn't work out I'll go with an aftermarket AC system using modern refrigerant etc.

Thanks,

[HWYSTR455]

I did a refurb on the AC system on my 442, and in the end, went to a vintage air setup. The OE setup was just not up to par on a number of fronts, air flow was one big issue. And yes, did all the seals and new blower motor. I also taped all the duct connection points.

I finally bailed and did a vintage air setup and it blew stronger, colder, and cost less.

The condenser with the VA setup was way more efficient, sure that had a lot to do with it.

I can give you tips though if doing the OE setup.

Things you need new, no exception: Dryer, hoses, new aftermarket or newer material o-rings, seals, and POA valve.

Things I strongly suggest be new: Condenser, evap core, blower motor, and compressor.

If the items/parts have been exposed to outside air for years, at bare minimum, you need to flush them. Most parts you just can't clean properly, but you can try if you want. If there's ever been a compressor burn-out, it's extremely difficult to get the old parts flushed properly. And filters are a crutch that never really work right, and at least become a restriction.

Once you add up all the parts' cost you will see it's a deal going to a VA system. Unless you are trying for an OE look, just cut to the chase and go VA.

Sell the OE parts to offset the cost of the VA system.


.

[HWYSTR455]

If you want to look at some of what I did, check out the 442 build thread on another site:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...project-29721/

.

[tjs72lemans]

Besides the cost to rebuild, the original compressors are prone to oil leakage not to mention the weight of them. I went with Classic Air (Old Air) as it uses a modern compressor at about 1/4 the weight. The bigger issue for me was using my existing factory controls and vents rather than plumbing new stuff. Works great and would do it again. The kit comes with everything from new style condenser to evaporator and everything in between for about $1300. It also only uses about 5 hp to run as opposed to 15 hp for original.

[HWYSTR455]

I used Classic Air when I did the first rebuild on the 442, so when I went to the VA setup, all I needed was the evap box and control panel.

I sent Classic my evap box and they repaired/refurbed it, it was nice. I had issues with the original control/actuators after the Classic install, replaced those, and then it started leaking. I went to the new style compressor, and used Classic's brackets which were junk and kept breaking. Then the POA they sent me started to leak and malfunction.

I threw the towel in at that point, I was done. The VA setup in it now blows strong and COLD.

Same with my GTO, blows strong and cold. When I had it charged it was blowing at like 36 degrees or less. We didn't even try to let it go any colder, just called it done.

One thing I wish the VA setup had is an actual AC button to turn the compressor on/off. It's a little funky having to slide the temp bar all the way to engage it. But considering how well it works, I can live with that.


.

[HWYSTR455]

I have a complete VA setup for the bird, too. When I do that, I will use a firewall pass-thru manifold, and leave the kick panel vent operational.

I have a manifold for the GTO installed, but ran it thru the cowl per instructions. I shouldn't have done that, I should have gone thru the firewall.

The only other complaint I have is there's no fresh air door/source. Not sure how much that matters, but found it kind of odd.

Sometimes in the winter I would run the compressor with the heat on, to suck out the moisture from the cabin. Not sure how much use that is now, but it might be a concern for some, depending on how the car is used.



.

[HWYSTR455]

Use the EZ lines & fittings, that stuff rocks, you can make it any length and do it at home.

I ended up doing a hard line for the rear head heater hose, ran it to behind the fender. Ran the lines up front behind the fender too.

VA makes straight AC hard line stock, you can use that and bend it and use less hose.



.

[dataway]

You guys just about have me talked into a modern system, but I would have some requirements.

I want it to use the OEM suitcase and interior side parts, I want it to blow out of the OEM vents. Removing the underhood suitcase is not an option for me. I would prefer it if the OEM controls still controlled everything. Right now everything OEM there works great, blower (new), all the controls, flaps, vacuum parts work. To be honest, I think a person could put on new lines, vacuum the thing out, refill it and it would work ... not sure how good ... and yes I hate the giant, heavy old compressor too.

How about just going with a modern compressor and perhaps modern refrigerant? The condenser is new and while it is a direct replacement for the original it definitely has a different fine/tube design ... not sure if that is indicative of a better design or not.

I've had the entire suitcase (both sides) out, cleaned, restored, new heater core, evap coil looked great ... basically it's just waiting for a compressor to be hooked up, new seals/lines and filled up. The original compressor sat on shelf for 30 years with all it's oil in it (climate controlled), openings sealed up ... but I have no idea of it's running condition. I'd gladly replace it with something lighter and better.

[dataway]

Just browsed the VA website, their kits are WAY more modification to stock than I had thought. This car is about 99% stock right now, already a lot invested in getting all the OEM HVAC stuff working ... meaning everything inside/outside suitcase, dash controls, vents, ducts etc.

About the only option right now for major changes is the compressor. Last time I checked the OEM style compressors are still being produced new, and rebuilt. I'm not sure about any different compressor options. I would really like to get rid of the old style compressor if I can. Don't some of the new compressor trigger a different way? Won't they cycle on and off as necessary or something along those lines?

And before I go too deep into these other options, any input on my original post about R12, hoses, parts etc.?

[HWYSTR455]

If you're that close and it's all new, it makes sense to try it and see how it works.

R12 is a better refrigerant, have heard that many times. I would stick to R12 if that's an option.

Be careful and make sure you are actually getting R12 and not R22. Many shops use R22 instead because of cost.

Sanden compressors are efficient, and should have modern seals, so you can do either, R12 or 134.

Both compressors function roughly the same, so no other mod is required. The original POA is also efficient, as long as they work properly, and personally would stay away from the cycling 'update' types.

If the dryer has been exposed to outside air for just about any amount of time, it should be replaced. If you installed the dryer with the caps in place and it is still capped off, you're good. But if there's a doubt, they are inexpensive enough to replace to be sure.

Finally, oil. The amount of oil in the system has a dramatic impact on cooling, and it is common for people to use too much (less is better than more). There is a table on how much one should add relevant to the items and size of the system, and provides an estimate of how much oil to add. The service manual should have a table which applies you your make/model, and sometimes the service sticker under the hood has total capacity. Between those 2 sources, you can calculate the required amount of oil. The original oil type is mineral oil (R12 compatible) and the newer 134-or other is PAG. If there has ever been any mineral oil in the system, you are pretty much stuck using mineral oil, the two from what I understand is not recommended to mix.



.

[tjs72lemans]

This is why I went with Classic Air. I did not want to rip out any of my original controls or under dash box. The only thing different is I used their evaporator, since I didn't know what shape mine was in. I bought the car with the AC torn apart. Contaminants in an evaporator can take out the compressor. I was putting in a new heater core to be safe, so I was in there anyway. From my understanding, they do cycle different from an original. The original runs all the time while it is in AC mode. The new cycles on and off. You don't notice it, because it takes less power to operate. They use the Sanden compressor and 134 refrigerant. It also uses a different POA valve.

[HWYSTR455]

Yes, it's with the POA valve that remains 'on'. The 'update' valve is the one that cycles. It in my understanding has nothing to do with the compressor.

"A thermostat prevents the Evaporator from freezing by cycling the Compressor on and off based on Evaporator temperature. A POA Valve prevents the Evaporator from freezing by by-passing excessive system pressure. Note that in a POA Valve type system, the Compressor runs constantly whenever the air conditioning system is operating."

Source: https://www.originalair.com/about-po...is%20operating.

"POA valve update kits convert the A/C system to a cycling clutch type system as found on later model vehicles."

This is from an OAP Amazon listing for an update valve, which is not a POA:

https://www.amazon.com/Valve-Update-...TD-&hvexpln=73

They make 2 different update valves, one for R12, and one for 134.

Sanden does make compressors for both R12 and 134. In some cases, it's just a matter of changing to the compatible oil.

This is Sanden's 'official' stance on R12/134a:

https://www.sanden.com/objects/retro.pdf

.

[Verdoro 68]

No doubt the newer systems are more compact and efficient, but I prefer the look of a factory setup on a factory-looking car. I rebuilt my system using factory style parts. I swapped to R134 about 20 years ago when people were hoarding R12 and it was hard to come by. Seems easier to get these days for whatever reason.

Last year, I swapped over to a cycling setup because I blew out the original POA trying to adjust it. I picked up most of my parts and hoses from Old Air out of Texas, including the billet POA eliminator that looks like a POA. I got a new Delco A6 compressor from Summit for a couple hundred bucks. No issues with the system so far. It cools well and cycles like it's supposed to. I did rewire the idle stop solenoid to act as a compensator for the compressor when it's on because you can feel it when big old A6 is running.

[dataway]

Excellent info folks.

I kind of narrowed it down to Old Air also as they seemed to have all the individual parts needed.

I am going to need to replace the new drier I think as it spent considerable time with one of the caps off.

Verdoro ... I really like your setup. I can live with an A6 if I can get around not having an idle solenoid (well, at least not at the moment)

Did you get new lines and such at Old Air also?

I'm a bit intimidated by this job, I know zip about AC except the theories and principles, no practical experience. I did look for a local AC shop here in west TN but couldn't find anything that appeared to be an AC specialty shop.

No problem buying a vacuum pump, always wanted one anyway. Gauge sets seem reasonable so no problem there. I'd probably go ahead and purchase a new A6, or new R12 compatible (that will use A6) mounts since I really don't want to trash all the work with an old compressor that might fail at any time.

So about how many cans of R12 would I need ... three? Twenty? I have no idea I plan to get about double whatever I need.

Can I do this myself you think?

[HWYSTR455]

Dang Ken, that is one of the most sanitary engine compartments I've ever seen! Every time I look at it I find myself staring! Heheh!

That billet valve looks great too.

I wish I would have used OAP and not Classic, but oh well.



.

[Verdoro 68]

Yes, I got new lines from Old Air, too. I think they were all included with this kit, but I'm sure you could get them individually if you don't need the muffler. I know Ames has some of them.

https://www.oldairproducts.com/produ...se-muffler-set

I knew nothing about A/C before I did my system. I bought a set of gauges from Harbor Freight, rented a vacuum pump from AutoZone to test the system and read/watched a bunch online. In hindsight, I think I put too much oil in the system since the compressor already contained some. Temps at the vent are around 40-45 degrees, R12 might be better but I'm happy with the temps. The new compressor hasn't shown any signs of slinging grease either.

[dataway]

Verdoro ... I'm going to be picking your brain in the future.

This will be a winter project when the new shop is built (what little winter we have here in TN) in hopes it will be complete by spring. I like to get my ducks in a row early, and whip them into line without mercy before I start something.

I'll basically be trying to replicate your system but with R12 for now, if that doesn't work out I'll go from there. I'll spend the next few months trying to scrounge up some R12.

How is Old Air about a phone call asking them about my needs?

[tjs72lemans]

Yes , you can do this by yourself with little knowledge about AC. I knew nothing and installed/plumbed everything myself. I did take my car to the local Chevy dealer though to evacuate and charge the system. That only cost me about $140. They said it all looked good and three years later still blows cold!

['ol Pinion head]

My brother & I typ get together for AC recharges, he has the vac pump to evac systems. I have a bunch of R12 put up. 14oz & 12oz cans, as well as 134A for our late models. I need to buy a vac pump. On a '68-72 A-bidy looking around 4lbs of R12. On original '60's & 70's AC equipped GM's, as well as in true restorations, I've found it best to stay with factory A6 or R4 compressor, brackets, evap core. Nice evap cores can be flushed & pressure tested. Lines can be replaced, always replace the dryer. The compressor set aside for my '72 T/A has been sealed up since the day I pulled it. High heat provision Frigidare replacement A6 off a phenomenally maintained '72 GrandVille. Am big on both function & factory appearance. Years ago, buying partscars, I'd occasionally get in a '69-72 A-body with the incorrectly bent (squared off) '68-72 POA tube, those cores would always make the alum scrap stack.

A good R-12 system should freeze one out in anything short of a dark vinyl interior t-topped 2nd Gen, or in an early Blazer. Both of the latter have been challenges in the hottest of OK summers.

[dataway]

You guys are giving me hope.

I had thought of giving it a shot rebuilding my original A6, I think the parts are available. Looks like mostly just seals. New or rebuilt units are not that outrageous, but so far I've had good luck rebuilding original parts myself.

I'm a bit confused by some of the A6 units I see for sale, some around $275 with core charge, others around $600 with no core charge.

I'm seeing where people as late as 2022 have purchased new ALMA (US made) A6 compressors (typically around $600) that would probably be my go-to option if I need a new A6.