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Old 05-02-2018, 12:32 PM
Va68goat Va68goat is online now
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So what you're saying Chiphead is that I have a set of very rare Pontiac rockers that you have never seen before. In that case, they can be found in the for sale section of the forum under the Performance section. We'll start off at $587.00 (the price of the Crowers)...hahahaha

Thanks for posting that link. Interesting read and helps me understand a lot more. I'm glad I went with the Crowers. I'll be sure to post additional pictures of the old rockers that may help in identifying them!

Joe
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Old 05-02-2018, 12:33 PM
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You may be right 400 Lemans. That sure looks like them!
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Old 05-02-2018, 02:31 PM
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Think I found them at summit. Decent set of budget rockers. I wouldn't use them with more than about 400lbs of spring.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-11747-16

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...w/make/pontiac
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:16 PM
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They are the Crane cast aluminum rockers good for stock or slightly modified engines no roller cams or flat tappet cams with alot of spring pressures.. Im not sure where the EXACT limits are

I would lash them down as others described watching the flats to make sure thats the only problem

.
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:30 PM
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Thank you Formulas. My motor is far from stock and pushing a little over 500 hp. I'm getting the Crowers tomorrow. I'm not going to use these rockers. In matter of fact, if anyone is interested in them, I'll sell them pretty cheap since I wont be using them!
  #66  
Old 05-02-2018, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Formulas View Post
They are the Crane cast aluminum rockers good for stock or slightly modified engines no roller cams or flat tappet cams with alot of spring pressures.. Im not sure where the EXACT limits are

I would lash them down as others described watching the flats to make sure thats the only problem

.
The Crane catalog says those are their entry level roller rockers suitable for use with flat tappet and roller lifter cams with open pressures up to 450 lbs.

http://www.cranecams.com/314-319.pdf

The second .pdf in post #7 says open pressure on this build is 405-410# I think it was.
  #67  
Old 05-18-2018, 07:43 AM
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Default UPDATE: Problem identified

Thanks to HWYSTR455, the problem has been identified. Mike, (HWYSTR455), installed and adjusted the new Crower rockers and we still heard the knocking. Turns out the knocking noise was coming from the torque converter. The noise was very deceiving because it certainly sounded as if the noise was coming from the back of the motor under, under the passenger side valve cover. We'll be checking the bolts to the flexplate and ensuring the flexplate isn't cracked. See video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6UQfii_xOY
  #68  
Old 05-19-2018, 10:55 PM
Va68goat Va68goat is online now
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Default NEED SOME HELP...

So today we looked further into the knocking noise. Here is the video that I posted earlier after I replaced the rockers and heard the noise coming from the torque converter area.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6UQfii_xOY

We checked the tightness and clearance of the flexplate bolts and everything was fine. We unbolted the torque converter and pulled it away from the flexplate but we still heard the knocking noise. Nothing was hitting the starter. Here is a video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbFnWHU6xio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5MpaF2ihcA

Here is a video at 1st start when I 1st got the motor installed (no miles on the motor)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHLshwwe-Tc

Here is a start from tonight from the same angle as the 1st start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q74Tj_I2mk4

Now, I don't know much about cars at all. This whole thing is new to me. My buddy today suggested that we pull the plugs out and spin the motor at the crank. He said that it would get rid of the compression. We did that and he was surprised that it was difficult to spin the motor. I have no idea what that means, I'm just going by what he said.

The knocking noise seems to start at the location of the flexplate and travels through to the front, lower half of the motor. I know sound can travel in an odd way sometimes but I'm just saying what it sounded like. The oil pressure was reading good and the temperature gauge was at 185 degrees. The flexplate was balanced and there are no visible signs of a crack!

If anyone can offer any ideas, suggestions or thoughts, I would appreciate it. The motor maybe has 45 miles on it now.

Last edited by Va68goat; 05-19-2018 at 11:05 PM.
  #69  
Old 05-20-2018, 07:03 AM
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Have you tried using a mechanics stethoscope on that engine under the car at various spots on the bottom edge both sides, up top, front to back one runner after another on the intake, etc., etc.?
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Old 05-20-2018, 07:52 AM
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Could be a broken spring under the plunger of the fuel pump. They will still pump but there is nothing there to take up the slack in the plunger arm. I have had this happen before and it was the last thing i thought to check and there it was. Sounded like a valve tapping. Cant tell from the videos though if your running a mechanical fuel pump.
  #71  
Old 05-20-2018, 08:43 AM
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Default Observations and Thoughts

First, It doesn't sound like a "death rattle" of a blown engine or failed part.

Noise appears to be happening with every crank revolutuon.

Noise hasn't changed since first fire up.

Last video it sounds like you can hear the noise right when the engine stops.

Only a couple of things I can think of right now. AND I MEAN THINKING ONLY. Screw or something went down the intake and is stuck in the top of a piston. That could be checked by sticking one of those little cameras in the sparkplug holes.

That noise, shallow but deep. I've heard something like it before on an Olds engine. That engine got water in a cylinder and bent a rod. Just enough to let a counter weight contact the bottom of a piston. This makes me wonder what rods got used in this build. Remembering that thread a while back where the little end of an aftermarket forged rod was touching a counter weight.

Really hard to say from watching videos.

Sorry about first thoughts being worst first this morning.
Clay
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Old 05-20-2018, 08:46 AM
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61-63,

We haven't used a mechanics stethoscope yet but a few of my friends that worked on the car apparently used an old school technique. One used a piece of wood and put it up to his ear as he moved it along the entire motor, valve covers, intake etc. The same method was used with a long screwdriver. As I understood it, neither of the techniques produced any results of value. I'm going to pick up the mechanics stethoscope today and try that. Thanks 61-63

400 Lemans,
I am using a mechanical fuel pump!! I will check that out next. Thank you very much. I hope thats it! Here is the pump that I'm using.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-m6907/overview/

If anyone needs to see any additional pictures or videos to get a better idea, let me know...I will get it done!
  #73  
Old 05-20-2018, 08:59 AM
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Default Something else

Hook a timimg light up and see if the noise is twice as fast or in time with the blink.

Clay
  #74  
Old 05-20-2018, 09:12 AM
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Thanks for responding QUICK-SILVER. I'll get that checked out. This is frustrating because I know so little about cars but I'm certainly learning a lot.
  #75  
Old 05-20-2018, 09:38 AM
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Default Should've explained

Quote:
Originally Posted by Va68goat View Post
Thanks for responding QUICK-SILVER. I'll get that checked out. This is frustrating because I know so little about cars but I'm certainly learning a lot.
If the noise is twice as fast as the blinking timing light, it has something to do with crank rotation. Foreign object on piston or some other contact.

"In time" or same speed as the light, would point toward a valve train issue or possibly the fuel pump.

Clay
  #76  
Old 05-20-2018, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Va68goat View Post
61-63,

We haven't used a mechanics stethoscope yet but a few of my friends that worked on the car apparently used an old school technique. One used a piece of wood and put it up to his ear as he moved it along the entire motor, valve covers, intake etc. The same method was used with a long screwdriver. As I understood it, neither of the techniques produced any results of value. I'm going to pick up the mechanics stethoscope today and try that. Thanks 61-63

400 Lemans,
I am using a mechanical fuel pump!! I will check that out next. Thank you very much. I hope thats it! Here is the pump that I'm using.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-m6907/overview/

If anyone needs to see any additional pictures or videos to get a better idea, let me know...I will get it done!

I would have suggested a broom handle but that only works along the intake runners pretty much due to space limitations. With the stethoscope as I'm sure you can picture in your mind, you can touch anywhere on the engine/bell housing/trans/water pump, etc., etc. and as you get closer to the bad bearing or whatever you can tell.
  #77  
Old 05-20-2018, 12:12 PM
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61-63,

When my buddy suggested that I do the broom handle thing, I thought he was messing with me because he knows I don't know much about cars. When a few of my friends did that same thing, I laughed because I thought he was trying to make me look like a fool. Turns out, this was an old school way. Thats pretty neat!
  #78  
Old 05-20-2018, 12:59 PM
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Sounds like it's once per revolution. Could be something hitting the windage tray. Could also be an endplay problem. Could be the fuel pump or eccentric coming apart. Could be an issue with a belt driven accy.
Since you have a good relationship with the builder, call him first.

Here is what I'd do:

Cut the oil filter open. If you find metal in the oil filter, it's game over. No reason to do anything else, pull the motor time.

Remove fan belts to eliminate an issue with the water pump or power steering, alternator other belt driven parts Run engine just along enough to confirm noise is still there. Remember that water pump will not be turning.

Next try to pry balancer in and out and confirm the end play. Too much end play indicates a main bearing problem. You may need to put a dial indicator on it because proper end play is a very small amount. Verify balancer is not coming loose.

Next, pull plugs and try to turn the engine a couple full revolutions using a breaker bar. Listen for the mechanical tink or other noises you roll engine over by hand.

You may have to pull fuel pump, or timing cover to make sure that the timing chain and fuel pump eccentric are not coming apart
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'67 LeMans. 407/TH350/Ford 3.90.
Bests:
13.0@102.5 N/A
11.82@110.1 50N/42F
Then it broke. Rebuild in process.
  #79  
Old 05-20-2018, 01:52 PM
Va68goat Va68goat is online now
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Thanks Chiphead. Sounds like all good advice. I've been speaking and texting with Paul, the builder, and he's been great to deal with. He's going through steps that I can do prior to having to send this motor back to Arizona...thats the last thing I really want to do but if thats what is needed, that will happen. This would be so much easier if I knew more about cars but I'm appreciative of the friends I have that help me and for you guys taking the time to give your thoughts.
  #80  
Old 05-20-2018, 02:26 PM
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Exhaust leaks can mimic many different types of sounds/knocks/rattles. Since you have exhaust manifolds it would be nothing to pull one of them off to verify.
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