[supersport#69]

What are the advantages and disadvantages of single vs two stage?
I’m leaning on single for my 68 starlight black but I really like clear coat look too so torn.
Is it the same body work or more forgiving?

[gtohurstjudge]

The disadvantage to clear coat is that you absolutely have to
make sure that there are no flaws in the base coat like trash on the surface
when applying the clear because anything wrong and it is trapped under the clear and you will be looking at the flaw forever. With single stage paint you can sand the flaw out with 1000 grit and polish it. I recommend single stage for
solid colors and clear coat over metallic base coats.

[69gtocv]

I prefer single stage with dark solid colors as well. I painted my 69 vert Starlight Black in single stage and I thought it looked really deep. I look at a clear coated black car and it looks "plasticy" to me. I have to paint my 68 LeMans in Cameo Ivory and I asked my paint supplier if I should paint it in BC/CC and he said only if I wanted to spend more money than I needed! Easy decision.

[65blackplate]

Yes it will look more black in SS like stated above..
Most of these cars don't sit out in the sun every day. Its much less work and $$$ too

[dataway]

In my case, and with my limited skills, I figure SS gives me one opportunity to screw up, and BC/CC gives me two opportunities to screw up. And since the odds of me screwing up are about 50% ... I figure with BC/CC there is no way I'll get it right.

[MUSLCAH]

Today’s single stage paints are far superior to the old DuPont Centauri and others. If I were to refinish my Monteago Cream GTO...I would not hesitate one bit about going single stage. Just give your self 4 good coats and you’ll have enough paint on there,to do a cut and buff. Like noted above ....metallic paints must be clear coated.....and solid colors can be single stage....or clear coated.....but I like the look of a solid color single stage .

[supersport#69]

So all opinions thus far are for single stage. When you say less money roughly how much less?
I’ve asked around a bit for paint jobs and I guess all are for bc/cs but nothing under 8k so far. One guy said 5k to put it in primer and 10k if I wanted show plus additional $1200 cut and polish.
These are not shops but guys doing it as side work from their homes.
The car is currently ugly with faded red paint and lots of overspray everywhere as it was most likely stolen/recovered in 1972 and and possibly sprayed to hide it.
Drivers fender has a small hole in lower section that needs patched (not rust related) and raar passenger quarter has some bodywork needed but not rust or dented.
Hood is bent but I bought a new hood.
The nose and fenders will need aligning as it’s not evenly mounted.
I just wanted a driver job that isn’t wavy looking down the sides with gaps reasonably spaced but the estimates for black have been higher than I expected considering backyard/garage jobs.

[MUSLCAH]

Everyone that wants a driver quality job and driver quality cost.....end up Bitching about all the flaws....just my experience. Been in the Autobody Business since 1976......

[supersport#69]

I can see that happening.

What are your rates for driver-show for black?

[dataway]

I'll be doing mine in SS Verdora Green ... which is a metallic ... so we'll see how it comes out. Years ago when I was at that stage I trimmed it all out in SS Verdora Green ... door jams are still shiny and smooth ... not that it means much. Of course any runs or sags are very apparent in metallic.

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by dataway

I'll be doing mine in SS Verdora Green ... which is a metallic ... so we'll see how it comes out. Years ago when I was at that stage I trimmed it all out in SS Verdora Green ... door jams are still shiny and smooth ... not that it means much. Of course any runs or sags are very apparent in metallic.

That’s a Basecoat /Clearcoat candidate.......No single stage for you.

[Greg Reid]

How do you repair a run, orange peel, etc. in SS?

[dataway]

The original paint was an SS metallic wasn't it? I'm confused why that can't be done anymore. Over the years I painted it in two different metallics ... a Ditzler SS metallic and an Imron metallic ... they weren't great paint jobs, but they weren't horrible either. Most errors I could wet sand out and polish ... if you looked real close you could see a disruption of the metallic pattern but that was about it. Course the Imron was hard to work with

[Greg Reid]

Back when I was under the illusion that I was going to paint my own car, I jamb'd mine out with single stage metallic.
It actually looked very good to me but my painter wasn't happy with single stage so I sanded it away from the outer surfaces right up to the interior jambs. Frankly, I'm not sure if he painted over my jambs or if he just painted up to the my paint. I was there when the car was painted but he may have redone the jambs at another time when I was not there. The color was a perfect match. I know he painted over the cowl sides because the front clip was painted separately.

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by dataway

The original paint was an SS metallic wasn't it? I'm confused why that can't be done anymore. Over the years I painted it in two different metallics ... a Ditzler SS metallic and an Imron metallic ... they weren't great paint jobs, but they weren't horrible either. Most errors I could wet sand out and polish ... if you looked real close you could see a disruption of the metallic pattern but that was about it. Course the Imron was hard to work with

Yes ...metallic colors from the factory were sprayed with Lacquer....and had no clearcoat. Trying to reproduce that type of finish with a metallic color ....takes a lot of time .....because if any debris (dust) lands in the finish....you have to let the surface flash off...then sand out the imperfection....and reapply more color and keep your fingers crossed. Lacquer took up to 7 coats to get coverage . Back in the 70’s ...we clear coated all metallic colors.....and solid Lacquer colors did not get clear.

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by dataway

The original paint was an SS metallic wasn't it? I'm confused why that can't be done anymore. Over the years I painted it in two different metallics ... a Ditzler SS metallic and an Imron metallic ... they weren't great paint jobs, but they weren't horrible either. Most errors I could wet sand out and polish ... if you looked real close you could see a disruption of the metallic pattern but that was about it. Course the Imron was hard to work with

After sanding and buffing a Single Stage Metallic color.....( runs or Dirt ) I bet it looked fine in the dark.....but once the light hit it...you had a big mess....and just looked like someone with out any experience did it.

[dataway]

By 68 they were acrylic lacquer correct? I'm pretty sure my home paint jobs were acrylic enamel, or in the case of the Imron ..whatever that stuff was.

Here are a couple of bad pictures of the paint, certainly not anywhere close to show quality. Metallic green and gold Ditzler and brown metallic Imron. Black and white photo is also the brown Imron.

If memory serves .. about three coats of the Ditzler and maybe two for the Imron.

I figure I'll shoot a bare fender in SS Verdora and see how it turns out and make a decision after that. Getting close, probably next summer.

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by Greg Reid

How do you repair a run, orange peel, etc. in SS?

If it’s a solid color....just sand and buff. But if you get a run in Single Stage Metallic or too much orange peel....just bend ovah and kiss your ass good bye.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by dataway

The original paint was an SS metallic wasn't it? I'm confused why that can't be done anymore. Over the years I painted it in two different metallics ... a Ditzler SS metallic and an Imron metallic ... they weren't great paint jobs, but they weren't horrible either. Most errors I could wet sand out and polish ... if you looked real close you could see a disruption of the metallic pattern but that was about it. Course the Imron was hard to work with

I had been told that the metal flake raises(?) to the top...
Or maybe it has to do with the way it get's laid down when painting...
Either way, I have understood that if you try to buff out the paint the metallic effect gets screwed up.

[dataway]

Verdora green is a pretty subtle metallic, at least it was as applied by the factory. I've seen plenty of BC/CC verdora greens that look way more "metallic" than the factory paint.

I'm not sure why things are different these days, but in the 60's and 70's there were tons of cars with SS metallic paints, and lots of shops shooting them in SS.

I think the expectations for paint job quality have gone up a lot since then. People would laugh at a factory paint job from the late 60's if they got it out of a paint shop now.

Now "metal flake" you pretty much can't touch that stuff in SS after it's painted. The flakes are about 10 times larger (or more) than metallic paint. I haven't seen a "metal flake" paint job in years.

Of course when I'm talking about my GTO when I owned it in the 70's (same one I still have) ... it was my daily driver and what I considered an acceptable paint job was probably way more relaxed that what people expect today.

Actually .... I might do the fender in BC/CC first .... probably makes more sense to try the easy way first. And just like here .... I'm not liking what I'm reading about SS metallic.