[proximity_alrt]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Paul could explain it to you better than anyone, he built it and knows more about the details and differences between the two dyno sessions.

Yes, pretty much this. Do you have a stall in the car? That would be part of the consideration in tuning it I would think.

[Va68goat]

proximity_alrt,

Cliff did the converter for me. If I'm not mistaken, it's a 2,800 / 3,000 stall converter!

[proximity_alrt]

Looking at the Dyno results, that looks like just where you want it to be!

Scott

[cnc]

Va68goat ....how u makin out.....

[Va68goat]

cnc,

Well... I'm sure 99% of the guys on this forum would be on the road already. Since I'm pretty much a rookie, I'm not doing anything by myself. The motor is mounted but that's about it. I'm having a buddy that knows what he's doing hook up all the electrical, carb etc.. I've done a few things myself...I installed the clutch fan, trans lines and a few other things. I'm a little lost with the power steering / alternator bracket because I can't seem to find the labeled bag with the bolts...hahaha.

I'm hoping to have the car on the road by the weekend though. Hopefully I'll be posting a video REAL soon!

[64speed]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

cnc,

Well... I'm sure 99% of the guys on this forum would be on the road already. Since I'm pretty much a rookie, I'm not doing anything by myself. The motor is mounted but that's about it. I'm having a buddy that knows what he's doing hook up all the electrical, carb etc.. I've done a few things myself...I installed the clutch fan, trans lines and a few other things. I'm a little lost with the power steering / alternator bracket because I can't seem to find the labeled bag with the bolts...hahaha.

I'm hoping to have the car on the road by the weekend though. Hopefully I'll be posting a video REAL soon!

A follow up post is worth nothing without a picture of a mile long Smokey burnout LOL just kidding

[cnc]

Good to hear u r making some progress keep at it ...it'll be worth the wait...

[Va68goat]

64speed,

Hahahaha. I agree 100% with you. I'm sick of this thread. I need to be ripping these tires apart. No more updates...unless I have a question on how to do something. Standby for the next "update" post. That will either be the 1st start video..or lighting up these tires that only have 200 miles on them.

cnc,

Thanks. I'm looking forward to it!

[1967Tempest]

Post a video of a decent burnout!!

[cnc]

Or something like this

[Va68goat]

Well...we started the motor today and the same knocking / ticking noise is present. To say I'm disappointed is an understandment. Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To57VTU11xM

[promptcritical]

Oh boy. Bummer.

[Va68goat]

August 5th 2018:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeOqYtY0Dng

July 14th 2019:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To57VTU11xM

[Squidward]

That sounds like an exhaust leak. I like to use hi temp rtv with the gaskets. Hell... I've even had to weld extra flange material on headers to stop a leak. What gaskets are you using with those RA manifolds?

[Mister Pontiac]

Wow, Joe. So sorry to read about this after all you've been thru.

I'll offer up my advice. Of course it's only that, my advice, so feel free to take it or leave it. But if I were in your shoes, this is how I would proceed...

First off, Paul has been thru the motor twice, and has discovered nothing catastrophic going on inside. Those bases have been covered.

Second, since the same sound was not heard 'consistently' when the engine was out of the car, but has been heard "rhythmically" both before and after only when the engine is in the car, it seems to indicate the noise may be related to another part of the drivetrain. I know you have been thru the flex plate/converter bolt scenario and there is nothing wrong there. So while the culprit is still at large, you have eliminated another potential drivetrain problem there too.

At this point, knowing these things, I would absolutely drive the car. A lot in fact. I would take it somewhat easy in the beginning, monitor the vitals (water temp, oil psi), and as you go, listen each time for the sound after you drive. If in fact you do have a mechanical issue where metal to metal contact is occurring, it should lessen as you drive as the problem continues to 'self clearance.' If however that's not what is happening, and you do have a failure looming (like a bearing or what have you), the noise will likely get worse as you drive.

So don't be afraid of it. Drive it. Just don't hammer on it too hard for a while until you decide if the noise is slowly going away, slowly getting louder, or simply staying the same. Based on those results, the diagnosis will likely get easier.

The hardest problems to diagnose are always the "almost broken" problems.

Hope that helps some, and like the others, I'll be waiting to hear how things progress.

[glhs#116]

Sadly, I'm in this boat myself. My "tick" is, I'm pretty sure, the portion of the dipstick tube that goes from the block to the windage tray half loose and contacting the crank counterweight. I'm not in a position to take the engine out now to drop the pan so I'm driving it. I'm watching everything like a hawk and I will probably do more frequent oil changes but at some point the only way to nail down a mystery issue is to let it develop somewhat through use..

Sam

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

What ever it is it’s pretty pronounced, no clue what area it’s coming from??

[krisr]

Originally Posted by Va68goat

Well...we started the motor today and the same knocking / ticking noise is present. To say I'm disappointed is an understandment. Does anyone have any ideas or thoughts?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To57VTU11xM

sounds very mechanical. Did you try it without the converter connected?

[Va68goat]

promptcritical,
Yeah, this is a bummer. No clue how or if I should even proceed any further.

Squidward,
We've been down the road of assuring it's not an exhaust leak. That was checked again yesterday and my buddy is very confident that it's not. He's been working on Pontiacs for 37 years.

Mister Pontiac,
Thats great advice and I appreciate that. I've thought about just driving it and see what happens. It just makes me nervous to do that because what this motor has not only cost me originally, but what I just paid to get it back.

glhs#116,
Sorry to hear you're experiencing similar issues. I hope this thread helps!

STEELCITYFIREBIRD,
No damn clue. I know my buddy and I that helped me yesterday feel it sounds like the exact same sound.

krisr,
Prior to us starting the car yesterday, we've pulled the converter back on 3 diferent occasions and that wasn't the problem. We didn't do that yesterday because of time.

** At this point, I have no choice. Read my next post and maybe this will make more sense to everyone!**

[Va68goat]

Well...Here's the real deal. I never mentioned this before for several reasons. 1) I didn't want to embarrass Paul because I know how well respected he is in here but I also noticed he never mentioned this either on the thread. 2) Another reason I never mentioned this is because I wanted to keep an open line of communication with him and I didn't want to do anything to make him mad while I needed to make this motor right. At this point. I just need this motor right. It has cost me a fortune. I just paid basically 1/3 of what I originally paid for the motor just to get it back.

When Paul had the motor completed the first time, it went on the dyno for the FIRST time. While on the dyno, the motor blew up. Paul said the pickup tube fell into the pan which caused a "Vortex" and the motor blew up. Paul said he did not weld the pickup tube. Paul did weld the pickup when he rebuilt the motor (after it blew up). When it blew up on the dyno, Paul said he had to replace the crankshaft, bearings and had to replace 2 connecting rods. He said he had a hard time finding a company to sell him 2 connecting rods but eventually found a company to sell him just 2.

After the blown motor was rebuilt, Paul sent it to the dyno again. Paul wasn't present for the dyno but a rear main seal was discovered. Paul fixed the rear main seal leak and the motor was sent to my house. I wish Paul would have been present at the dyno considering it just went through a catastrophic failure. When we started it and posted the video here that is when the knocking noise was discovered.

I went through almost two years of diagnosis on the motor and $1,900 in parts, fluids, tools and having the heads inspected. Just to recap here is what we did.

- Switched the rockers out (Went with Crowers)
- Pulled the motor, discovered the witness marks on the windage tray and only one washer as spacers when I was told that he usually uses two washers.
- Changed out the pushrods
- Changed out the lifters
- Had the cylinder heads inspected (Checked out good)
- Went to a thicker oil (Didn't make a difference)
- Pulled the converter back on several different occasions (Still heard the noise)
- Realized the flex plate was the only thing that wasn't new or rebuilt. Switched the flex plate...noise is still present.
- Motor was sent to Arizona. Paul discovered the bad distributor bushing and said when he broke the motor down, everything looked great and even posted pictures of clean bearings. Jeff looked at the motor after Paul and said the bearings were bad, piston rings were bad, crankshaft needed to be polished the the block needed a light honing. Paul sent the distributor to MSD and they rebuilt it. I sent Paul a new polymer gear for the rebuilt distributor. It was sent to the dyno where I received the weird dyno sheet with a date of Oct of 2018 (the motor was at my house in Oct of 2018). Paul posted a new video on his Youtube page of the dyno run. The video was taken from inside the booth.

This has gone on long enough. I actually spoke to Jeff last night and he was cool with me. He told me to concentrate on what is on the car NOW but was not used on the dyno. He suggested that we take a closer look at the fuel pump. I know the car was idling pretty rough in the newest video. We didn't play with the timing and and the carb wasn't touched at that time. After taking the video, we started it up again and played with the idle a little bit. It didn't make a difference...the noise was still there. Jeff was very adamant that the "Knocking or ticking" noise is not the same. Me and and buddy are just as certain that it sounds the same. Believe me, at this point of the game..I hear that "Knocking / ticking" noise in my sleep. It sounds identical to what was going on before.

I don't want to spend the next 2 years diagnosing this car. I can't afford to again pay for the motor to be shipped to Arizona, pay Koerner Racing Engine a 3rd time to look at this motor. If anyone has any ideas...feel free to share it. I think we can all learn a little something from sharing some knowledge