[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by pont3

I love this show simply because these guys just like to have fun. They take junk from a junkyard, get it running, and immediately set out on a road trip. Yes, they have back up to keep them from getting stranded somewhere, but they are also illustrating for the novices out there. I met Frieberger in 2004 on the Hotrod Power Tour. He hasn't changed. The guy knows his ****, but he deliberately does things that a novice would do simply to illustrate the disastrous results. I mean, drifting that t-boned Charger took some ingenuity.

I believe it would be called... Improvise

Something so many people today can't seem to do.

[lust4speed]

You have to give Freiburger credit, he acts like his 30, looks like he's in maybe his late forty's, and his birth date is August 21, 1946 -- 74 years old.

Every time I see him crawling back and forth out from under a vehicle or driving down the road with exhaust fumes and snow flurries coming up from the holes in the floor of their current junkyard rescue all I can think of is better him than me.

[bdk1976]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

You have to give Freiburger credit, he acts like his 30, looks like he's in maybe his late forty's, and his birth date is August 21, 1946 -- 74 years old.

Every time I see him crawling back and forth out from under a vehicle or driving down the road with exhaust fumes and snow flurries coming up from the holes in the floor of their current junkyard rescue all I can think of is better him than me.

He says he was born in ‘67 in this article. I’m a good bit younger but I still wish I had half of his energy and enthusiasm.

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/began-tribute-father/

[unruhjonny]

1967 makes alot more sense;
That outs him as ten years my senior.

[tekuhn]

I watched it. Turned out to have a '70 4-bbl 400 in it. I always thought those guys were fairly technical, so was really surprised at Freiburger's lack of understanding of why fuel was pouring out of the carburetor around the accelerator pump shaft. He changed out the pump plunger itself stating that fuel was leaking past the plunger "seal". They finally bought a new carb rather than address the obvious float/needle valve problem. That was a very solid car though and the tire/wheel combo looked good to me.

[moontower69]

I respect the Roadkill guys (have their stickers on my Poncho daily driver). They seem to hate Pontiac engines though, Freiburger thinks Ponchos are weak and flawed lifter valley design, he's first a Mopar and second a chevy and third a Ford guy....

He said GTO's are only "ok I guess but they're just Chevelles" - see his bias?

Dulcich is cool too, really KNOWS his Mopar engines and how to build them.....

[Will]

Originally Posted by tekuhn

I watched it. Turned out to have a '70 4-bbl 400 in it. I always thought those guys were fairly technical, so was really surprised at Freiburger's lack of understanding of why fuel was pouring out of the carburetor around the accelerator pump shaft. He changed out the pump plunger itself stating that fuel was leaking past the plunger "seal". They finally bought a new carb rather than address the obvious float/needle valve problem. That was a very solid car though and the tire/wheel combo looked good to me.

yeah, I don't understand how an experienced "car guy" can't figure out the carb problem.

I kind of suspect whatever electric pump they installed had something to do with it. Qjets don't like more than 4-6 psi.

I was pretty entertained by this episode though. Was good to see an old Pontiac coming to life and getting driven around. I have to admit the missing fuel pump eccentric would've had me scratching my head for awhile, too.

[Chief of the 60's]

They did exactly what I would have done in a pinch. Throw out that Quadrajunk and put on an AFB or better yet, a Holley.

[Sirrotica]

If you don't understand how a QJ works, then you're doomed to never be able to make them perform well. It's not the easiest carb to make race worthy, but it's probably the cheapest.

I used to love when I had my dirt track car in the pits and many, many, competitors would come over and say how much better my car would run if I would just take that QJ off, and replace it with a holley, and then they'd finish behind me in the feature race every week in their holley equipped cars........LMAO

Best part is all my QJs, I never paid a cent for any of them, all were donated. Not many times some one says, "Do you want this !@$&* Holley, I just want it off my car because I can't make it run right". I'll gladly take every QJ you want to give me. It's akin to racing a Pontiac, not everyone does it, because it takes more effort, and knowledge to do it. It's easier to plunk down dollars and bolt on a new piece, rather than fix what you have already. I also think that by that time of fighting the fuel pump problem, they were tired, and fed up, and needed to get on the road ASAP, so time was also a factor.

Pure Pontiac 428 dirt track car, with a T400 transmission, dual radiators, and a QJ carb, and I beat the chevies, fords and chryslers every week. If I would have just switched to brand X (chevy ford, or chrysler) used a stick transmission, went to a single radiator, and run a holley. I could have been a back marker every week, just like all the guys that follow the leader.......LOL.......

And for the record, that isn't an AFB they put on that car, it's an edelbrock clone that doesn't run nearly as well as the real AFBs. I have nothing against a real AFB, I've used them many times on my street cars. They don't like to run on cars that turn corners because of the bowl vent arrangement. Under high G force the fuel runs right out of the slanted vent tubes into the venturi, flooding the engine. There are hacks to make them work on a closed course car, but a QJ has no problems with dumping fuel in corners.

At the local race track they also had a 2 bbl class that they allowed 500 CFM holley 2 bbl approved carbs, or you could run a Rochester, or Carter carb also. The holley's cost around $350, then add another 100-150 bucks to have them set up, so roughly $450 bucks just for a 2 bbl carb. I bored the venturis on a Rochester 2 bbl carb and then did all the tricks I knew to gain more CFM for a guys Pontiac car I sponsored, because he was really low dollar. He would beat, or run right with the $450 holley equipped cars week every week. I'd rather spend time, than money on race cars.

In racing, if you want to beat the other guy, you can't do the same thing he's doing, think outside of his box. If you're a lo buck guy, you can't always buy the best equipment, but you might be able to improve what you already have, without spending a ton of money. That's the only way I was able to race for many years.

One other thing, Freiburger is the same age as my wife, 52, he was born in 1967. The 74 YO (born in 1946) thing is BS.

[Chief of the 60's]

For the record, Weber makes the AFB for Edelbrock, so they basically are AFB's. The Carter plant shut down somewhere in the 80's

[Sirrotica]

I really don't care who actually makes them now, they aren't the same quality carb as what came on production cars, and they surely don't run anywhere near as well as the real Carter AFBs. AVSs or Thermo Quads.

Carter designed them, and knew how to properly manufacture them. Edelbrock also tried to make their own QJ, and it also was a failure. I have no idea who made that carb.

Whatever they did to redesign them after Carter stopped making them, isn't an improvement over the originals. Jon Hargrove (Carbking on PY) has written many times how inferior the current carb is now compared to the OEM style AFBs. I have no reason to doubt his findings. He is very well versed on Carter carbs, as well as most everything having to do with carburetors.

[moontower69]

I agree.

I run a Qjet on my Poncho daily driver and I had a Qjet on my 1978 CJ-7 jeep in college, that thing would run almost upside down 4 wheeling.....

[Chief of the 60's]

Hmmm..... I used to race CJ Jeeps. Never seen a 304 or 360 come with anything other than a Motorcraft/Holley

[moontower69]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

Hmmm..... I used to race CJ Jeeps. Never seen a 304 or 360 come with anything other than a Motorcraft/Holley

Yeah, I didn't say it CAME with a Qjet, I swapped out the Holley from PO (who ditched the crappy factory Motorcraft I think), used spreadbore adapter. It was 304 w Qjet 3 speed manual, loved that thing, had 31 inch tires....red w black bikini top, I wish I could find a picture

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by moontower69

Yeah, I didn't say it CAME with a Qjet, I swapped out the Holley from PO (who ditched the crappy factory Motorcraft I think), used spreadbore adapter. It was 304 w Qjet 3 speed manual, loved that thing, had 31 inch tires....red w black bikini top, I wish I could find a picture

The 3 speeds were junk and very odd to find one in a CJ-7. I always ran CJ-5's. They never put the 4 speed in a CJ-5 due to the length. I did. Rear driveshaft was 17 inches long.

[Drag Star Le Mans]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

If you don't understand how a QJ works, then you're doomed to never be able to make them perform well. It's not the easiest carb to make race worthy, but it's probably the cheapest.

I used to love when I had my dirt track car in the pits and many, many, competitors would come over and say how much better my car would run if I would just take that QJ off, and replace it with a holley, and then they'd finish behind me in the feature race every week in their holley equipped cars........LMAO

Best part is all my QJs, I never paid a cent for any of them, all were donated. Not many times some one says, "Do you want this !@$&* Holley, I just want it off my car because I can't make it run right". I'll gladly take every QJ you want to give me. It's akin to racing a Pontiac, not everyone does it, because it takes more effort, and knowledge to do it. It's easier to plunk down dollars and bolt on a new piece, rather than fix what you have already. I also think that by that time of fighting the fuel pump problem, they were tired, and fed up, and needed to get on the road ASAP, so time was also a factor.

Pure Pontiac 428 dirt track car, with a T400 transmission, dual radiators, and a QJ carb, and I beat the chevies, fords and chryslers every week. If I would have just switched to brand X (chevy ford, or chrysler) used a stick transmission, went to a single radiator, and run a holley. I could have been a back marker every week, just like all the guys that follow the leader.......LOL.......

And for the record, that isn't an AFB they put on that car, it's an edelbrock clone that doesn't run nearly as well as the real AFBs. I have nothing against a real AFB, I've used them many times on my street cars. They don't like to run on cars that turn corners because of the bowl vent arrangement. Under high G force the fuel runs right out of the slanted vent tubes into the venturi, flooding the engine. There are hacks to make them work on a closed course car, but a QJ has no problems with dumping fuel in corners.

At the local race track they also had a 2 bbl class that they allowed 500 CFM holley 2 bbl approved carbs, or you could run a Rochester, or Carter carb also. The holley's cost around $350, then add another 100-150 bucks to have them set up, so roughly $450 bucks just for a 2 bbl carb. I bored the venturis on a Rochester 2 bbl carb and then did all the tricks I knew to gain more CFM for a guys Pontiac car I sponsored, because he was really low dollar. He would beat, or run right with the $450 holley equipped cars week every week. I'd rather spend time, than money on race cars.

In racing, if you want to beat the other guy, you can't do the same thing he's doing, think outside of his box. If you're a lo buck guy, you can't always buy the best equipment, but you might be able to improve what you already have, without spending a ton of money. That's the only way I was able to race for many years.

One other thing, Freiburger is the same age as my wife, 52, he was born in 1967. The 74 YO (born in 1946) thing is BS.

Back around 1995 I had a Buick with a 455 and Q-jet, totally stock. Guy I worked with said he could pick up 50HP with a holley double pumper. My car turned into a big fat pig. He tried to re-jet a few times and gave up. I put the Q-jet back on and smoked tire!!!

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Drag Star Le Mans

Back around 1995 I had a Buick with a 455 and Q-jet, totally stock. Guy I worked with said he could pick up 50HP with a holley double pumper. My car turned into a big fat pig. He tried to re-jet a few times and gave up. I put the Q-jet back on and smoked tire!!!

I'll just hazard a guess here, I bet it used a ton of fuel too, along with the mundane performance.

I have tried holley carbs on my own street cars, usually because I bought a car that came with one on it. I've had people loan me holley's to try on my race car, that swore I'd gain performance with them.

When I've tried to run them on street cars, I was always messing with them. Usually because they started flooding, and I'd have to reset the float level. They are not known for holding float level settings, hence the reason you can adjust them externally, in most cases.

I built a QJ for the race car, and for a little over 2 years I never had to touch it. I scrapped the car, and just pulled the 428 out of it with carb in place.

Holley carburetors may have their place on strictly race cars, but I've never been overly impressed with them on daily drivers. I have taken them off of customer cars that ran poorly, and replaced them with a warmed over Q Jet. Customers were astounded at how much better their cars ran. For a dual purpose car they run much cleaner at low speeds, and correctly calibrated, they are more economical to daily drive. As long as you're not trying to do something that the carb was never engineered to do, I cannot fault them.

You have to hand it to the engineers from Rochester, they used the same basic design from 230 OHC 6, to 500 inch Cadillac engines. That's a pretty versatile design.

I was in the dark about them before I bought the book that was written by Doug Roe, and read it cover to cover. I kept it like a carb bible for reference, for every Rochester carb I ever needed to modify:



Tons of easy to understand instructions, explanations, and images in that book. Of course our Q Jet resident expert, Cliff Ruggles also has his own book now too. I need to buy it too, at some point. Understanding how something works, is the key to repairing it. If you don't understand it you're shooting in the dark when it comes to problems, such as what happened on the Roadkill episode. Had either Finnegan or Freiberger known about the Q Jet engineering, and operation, they would have been able to fix it first time.

No matter whose name is on the exterior of a carb, the engine doesn't know what is sitting on top of it. I just happen to prefer how the design of the Rochester carbs arrive at the end goal. I've worked on all of them, so I have a preference. As long as the engine is happy, it could care less what carb is on it.

Same thing when it comes to engines, they all pump air and fuel, with exhaust and power as the end product. I just happen to prefer how Pontiac engineers arrived at their design, and same thing as with the carburetors, I have worked on all of them, it just comes down to preference.

[Chief of the 60's]

Instead of bashing all those Chevys winning in Pro-Stock back in the days, Pontiac people could stop being so hung up on Quadrajunks and use a competitive carb like a Holley just like all those winning Chevys did.

Just an observation.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Chief of the 60's

Instead of bashing all those Chevys winning in Pro-Stock back in the days, Pontiac people could stop being so hung up on Quadrajunks and use a competitive carb like a Holley just like all those winning Chevys did.

Just an observation.

I did say that holley's had their place, but I have never even been in the territory of a Pro Stock car, just a roundy round race cars. Which I was able to cover all the other brands of cars with my Pontiac engine, and a modified QJ carb.

If I was inclined to run a Pro Stock car, most likely it would not have dual Q Jets on the top of the manifold, nor a RA IV cam, however that never happened, I like dirt track cars too much.

Actually unless the rules dictate that a car must run a carburetor most top classes have went to EFI, Noosecar switched 5 years ago. It's even more expensive than carburetors are, but able to be adjusted with a laptop. Never touch a tool, but you can adjust it to your hearts content, but it's expensive.

I really like EFI, but I'm not of unlimited funds to be able to buy a setup like that. Pontiac guys are also hesitant to put a 4L80E in their cars because it's electronically controlled with an ECM, so they opt for a manually cable controlled 200....

Anyway, I was a lo buck racer and got QJs for free, modified them myself, so it fit my program. I also made all the parts for my cars, rather than buying them. I was really lo buck and if I wasn't, I would have sat in the stands spectating. I suspect most of the Pontiac racers are also hamstrung with finances, either go cheap, or watch someone else race.

If the factory had made more performance parts as chevy did over the years. If they put more money into having a performance image as chevy did, the Pontiac racer would have benefited. They however didn't, and we know the results.

Pontiac spent a great deal on their performance image from 57-63, they had factory teams, and out the back door parts. This is when many of the Pontiac loyal got indoctrinated into Hi Po Pontiacs. Delorean kept the street image up as well as possible during the racing ban with GTO and Firebird. We just never had the factory support that chevy had after 1963. Anyway past history, so we deal with the hand we've been dealt.

My observation, and experience, and I bleed Pontiac Blue when cut...........LOL. Just like the Pontiaddict shirt I designed, and sold, #5 says on the back: