[John V.]

According to a history I found, the "Objects In Mirror" warning started with the '72 Model Year in the US, possibly '71.

In '78, I bought a used '73 Trans Am which I repurchased 36 years after selling it off following a collision in 1980. It was my first car with a RH mirror.

Original sport mirrors were gone when I repurchased it.

After my accident I purchased a brand new '80 Phoenix SJ with all the bells and whistles including Sport Mirrors.

One of the first things I noticed was that the warning verbiage on the RH mirror was "different". I don't recall if I knew exactly what the change was but I distinctly remember looking at the new Phoenix mirror and thinking, "That's not the wording I remember on the TA mirror." I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it but that original memory stuck with me.

I've thought about that from time to time thru the years.

Original sport mirrors were gone when I repurchased the TA.

After repurchasing the TA, I've been buying various needed parts including a set of used sport mirrors. The RH mirror doesn't have any wording on it so I assume the glass had been replaced in the past.

Today I went looking to see if reproduction replacement mirror glass is available and find that it is.

But it seems the etched wording is the later "OBJECTS IN MIRROR ARE CLOSER THAN THEY APPEAR".

I googled around and couldn't find anything to confirm my memory other than some discussions where a few folks seem to remember a different wording but no specific evidence while others think those memories might be more a figment of one's imagination.

The wording suggested by others was "OBJECTS IN MIRROR MAY BE CLOSER THAN THEY APPEAR".

For my part, I very distinctly recall thinking it was weird to see a different wording on my Phoenix after 2 years of looking at the TA mirror. I'm certain I'm not imagining it.

So I'm asking those of you with survivor cars from the '70s to check your RH mirrors to see what the wording is. I'm guessing somewhere between '73 and '80 the wording was revised.

I'm wondering if there is enough evidence on this forum to determine when the change was made.

[ladytata]

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[ladytata]

No words till 79 on ta. Those mirrors are off a 73


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[tooski]

My 75 Formula born with RH mirror has no writing on it.

[unruhjonny]

I believe that the changeover happened somewhere around 75-76;
1977+ for sure had them, 1973-1974 did not.
It may have shown up on 1971/1972 model year cars, but not Firebirds/Camaros.

You can chase this down by looking at the date codes on the mirrors;
Something that I HAVE been doing for a a little while now.

You can peruse ebay listings, most of the sport mirrors are the "objects in mirrors" type, and a good number chow the date (if you look close);
It's the lsitings that do not have the note which do rarely have clear enough pictures to make out the date code.

I can go look at the few remaining mirrors that I have left (I have been selling off all my spare stuff for years now, and intentionally NOT buying more (which is a really hard habbit to break by the way!).

[John V.]

Okay, I believe you guys!

But I'm not giving up just yet.

According to what I previously read, the warning has been required on CONVEX mirrors on cars since Sept. '71 by Fed law, 49 CFR 571.111 S5.4.2.

But I'm thinking the 2nd gen 'bird used FLAT glass on the RH mirror so did not include the warning until '79 per ladytata so maybe they switched to CONVEX glass that Model Year.

So my recollection must be crossed up. Most likely my '73 TA still had original mirrors in '78 so did not have any etched warning.

But my memory of a change in wording was very distinct. It was immediate upon some change in my car ownership, a first glance at the new car's RH mirror and my immediate reaction that the wording had changed. In other words, I am not reflecting back on what I thought the mirror said years ago but rather I recall the moment when I read a new mirror warning and believed it was different than the mirror on my previous car.

I can't find anything to suggest the wording according to the Fed law has ever changed and no evidence to support the idea of a change.

It does seem that lots of people today are thinking back 30 years ago and believe it used to say "MAY" rather than the "ARE" they see today. But I think those memories are different from mine. They "remember" it saying "MAY" when asked to think what the mirror has said. But they don't have a specific memory of the moment from decades ago when they saw a new mirror and thought, "hey, that wording has changed" the way it happened for me.

Here are some threads where the issue has been discussed, see the many comments. In the video, the guy says the "MAY" wording appears in numerous newspaper articles but I don't think he says where, when, or in what context, so that "evidence" seems thin.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MandelaEffe...mirror_saying/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhffcrDa-Cs

No doubt I could still be nuts. But I'm wondering what did I see in my mirror some 30-40 years ago that caused my reaction to the mirror wording between some formerly owned car and some newly acquired car.

I have owned very few cars in my life. Even fewer that had a RH mirror. Cars owned or driven prior to '78 would not count, none had a RH mirror (my dad's '72 Impala did not, my sister's '74 base model Gremlin did not, both cars that I used for a period of time in '77). My own cars were no newer than '69 prior to the TA and the TA was the first car I owned with a RH mirror.

From the TA on, my cars always have had the RH mirror. The possibilities that I owned:

'73 TA, RH mirror likely without any warning
'78 Cougar XR7 with Sport Mirrors (wife bought new before I met her, we kept until '85)
'80 Phoenix SJ with Sport Mirrors (bought new, sold '88)
'84 Chevy Celebrity (used, sold the Cougar after acquiring)
'88 Ford Taurus Station Wagon (new, sold the Phoenix after acquiring)
'89 Olds Cutlass Ciera (new, replaced the Celebrity)
'93 Ford Taurus Sedan (new, replaced the Cutlass)
'97 GMC Safari (replaced the Taurus wagon)

Several more since but I am certain my memory of a changed wording occurred long before I bought the Safari Van. If it wasn't between the TA and the Phoenix, perhaps it was between the Cougar (though I couldn't find any evidence of the Cougar mirror having had a warning) and Phoenix (and not even sure the Phoenix mirror had a warning).

I did find an interesting article about the 1999 Mercedes. Seems they installed mirrors that inadvertently omitted the word "ARE" from the RH mirror warning on some cars before the mistake was caught. They begged forgiveness from the NHTSA to avoid a recall.

The CFR article mentions that the final convex mirror rule was published in 1982 and CONVEX mirrors with the specified warning had been in widespread use since so that the missing word might not be a significant safety issue. Don't know how they ruled on that. But the 1982 final rule date jumped out at me.

Could it be that the "MAY" wording was used on RH mirrors prior to '82 before the law went into affect? Could my memory be the warning on the Phoenix vs. the Celebrity?

I don't suppose the '79 TA RH mirror used "MAY".

I need to find a 1980 Phoenix with Sport Mirrors. It would certainly make the most sense to me that my Phoenix figured into the reason for the memory of a wording change. Finding one today won't be easy.

Not the most exciting Pontiac research I've pursued. Oh well.

unruhjonny, didn't see your post til I went to post this. Would welcome any additional comments you can add after checking your stash. Thanks.

['ol Pinion head]

Have sold two sets of sport mirrors off '71 & 72's, in the last month, & went through several boxes of excess mirrors. I agree with Lady TATA.

From a quick look around....
-no script on any of the original rh mirrors on my '72 Sport mirror cars or ones I've parted.
-no script on the original pass side Sport mirror off my '73 BG 4spd project.
-rh mirror off my '77 Y82 4spd project is boxed up with its original upper door panels, I'll look next time am up in the rack.

[unruhjonny]

Ok, I may have to eat a little bit of crow, but that's just what happens when you stick you neck out and make assertions based on recollection.

I checked my stash, I have no more OE rh mirrors;
I do have one, but it's a replacement piece of glass with no date code.
(only OE had the date code)

I did a quick check of ebay and found two dated mirrors that are close enough to give an approximate changeover;
One is dated June 1977, and has no writing (eg: not convex);
June 77 could be for very late 1977, or an early 1978 car.
The second is September 1978, so an early-ish 1979 model year piece.





I did look at the wording of the many examples I saw from my Firebird/Camaro searches, they all had the same wording.

Now, it is possible that the wording was used to identify one from another;
I believe GM used several same looking, but slightly different sized version of these sport mirrors, so I could see that there may have been scenarios where a quick way to discern one from another might have been a good idea;
I have observed that the cast mounting bracket does differ between some applications (eg: GP vs Firebird iirc);
I do have one rh set that is a mismatch of some sort, because the housing is a little too big for the mirror.

It is also possible that there may have been at some point in time a patent that extended to mirror wording that may have prevented (oh lets say) OE mirrors from reading the same as a knock off aftermarket replacement mirror.

['ol Pinion head]

Here's one for the bookworms...

I throw this out as I always get a real good chuckle out of those that run to even halfway close dated Master Parts books trying to note how Pontiac actually built these cars. Recent original battery cable usage topic is a good example.

When did the 2nd Gen F-body assembly plant(s) begin installing the larger font selector lens in the AT console shifters? Within 2 weeks...

[bird72]

My 72 is old style. You only need later warning ones for approaching T-Rex's.