[patox]

I seriusly considering to buy an 1966 GTO convertible, but I have some doubts about it, based mostly in this would be my first pontiac and muscle car ever.

First of all, the price, cause I havent seeing any car in loooking like this on Ebay, it is fair, but un restore (take a look of the picture) it is complete, with all the emblems but it has being parked for 15 years, so engine it's not working to check.

The second is I being having problem to ID the engine and transmision, it is suppose to be a 389, 4bbl; but the owner told me in his younger years he saw this car with Tri-power. Besides I cant get to match the engine casting number with any GTO engine from magazines.

The number casted on the distributor pan is #9786288 or #9786283 (the picture I take is a bit blur) and at the exaust side of the engine it got an "670".

I've also atached one full engine picture.

Really need any help ID this engine and pricing the car!!

Thanks a loooooot...

[johnta1]

Might check that block casting number again.

Could it be 9786133?
That would make it a 1967 400 which would go with the 670 (1967 head) you have.

On the front of the passenger side of the block below the head should be some stamped numbers and a 2 digit code below it.

Tell us what that is also.

[WDCreech]

The #670 heads were only used for the 1967 model year. Closed chamber, big valve, with an approximate combustion chamber size of 72cc. As for the block, I'd have to have the date code from on the distributer pad (four digits, should be a letter followed by three #s), and the engine cod at the front of the right cylinder bank just above the timing cover. Something like WJ or YK.

[patox]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Might check that block casting number again.

Could it be 9786133?
That would make it a 1967 400 which would go with the 670 (1967 head) you have.

On the front of the passenger side of the block below the head should be some stamped numbers and a 2 digit code below it.

Tell us what that is also.

I will try to go again and recheck the number... but definetly it is #9786288 but it is not on the engine... it is on the admision manifold, near to the carburator, may it mean something different?

Next time I'll go to see the car I will take picture to any letter or number in it.

Now, considering it is an 1967 engine in a 1966 car (not original), and looking as seen on pictures.... how much do you think is possible to pay for this car??

[johnta1]

Sorry, I thought it was for the engine.

The intake number should be 9786286 then.
That would make it a 1967 intake.
I think the whole engine might be a 1967 engine.

Now the price of the car, I'll let someone else answer.

[patox]

Originally Posted by johnta1

Sorry, I thought it was for the engine.

The intake number should be 9786286 then.
That would make it a 1967 intake.
I think the whole engine might be a 1967 engine.

Now the price of the car, I'll let someone else answer.

Such a nice work, to know witch engine it is just for the intake number....

Now thinking it is actually an 67 engine, it should be a 400ci or not?

If you were considering buying a 66 convertible.. whould you mind if it comes with this engine?, do it take some value out of it? at least it is a Pontiac, and just one year newer.....

Dont worry this car is in south america, so feel free and relief to give a price estimate, you are not loosing it!!

Hope you or any body can help on pricing.... so far you've being a GREAT help...

[cuz68]

How much are they asking for it? That would help a lot? A 400 would be a much beter engine IMO.

[patox]

Originally Posted by cuz68

How much are they asking for it? That would help a lot? A 400 would be a much beter engine IMO.

He is asking 24k. I think it is a lot of money, the problem is that in my country there are only two of them, and the other (was of the same owner) was sold time ago, in boxes, so it is very dificult that it came to live again some day.

I know that in this kind of "investment" you got to look international prices... what do you think of US$24k for this unrestore but complete car? consider it doesnt have the original engine, but it seems to me it is the original trans.

It do have some rust in the down corners, but nothing unespected for a 66 car, it has all its gauges, were working 14 years ago before it was parked, rally I whells, non original but 60's air conditioner, and a lot of extras like power windows, power bucket, power antena, safe T track diff, etc etc....

Please really needing some advise on this!

[Jerry H.]

If that car was in the US, 24k would be way overpriced, IMO.

[baron_]

good options, at least

if it PHS'd as an HO convertible with power windows and otherwise loaded, 24k might not be unreasonable
even if it doesn't have the original engine - it looks complete and clean - basketcases sell for 10k...#'s matching basketcases for 15k (or more)
in fact - if it had the original engine, 24k would probably be cheap - power windows in a convertible is awesome - power bucket/antenna - others = desirable and costly
So, without the original engine (post the numbers and we'll figure it out), it looks like a 20k car

if it's an HO car with lots of options, i wouldn't cry about paying 24k for it, especially if the motor is halfway desirable in it

look at the bent tips on the front 7-blade fan
(high output option for heavy duty cooling or HO motor i think, or a/c)
Also, if it's a '67 quadrajet - that wasn't on 1967 big cars (unless it's a 428) - probably means it's a 67 GTO 400 (67 big cars with 670 heads had carters usually)
bent tip fan, i'd wager it's an HO GTO motor or possibly a 428 - but coulda just added it with the aftermarket a/c system
if it's got a '67 HO motor - still pretty valuable and would make that 24k seem cheaper

look here for the letters we need
and then match that to the code on the back of the block to see what year/model motor it is


Look at the driver's side of the carb
do you see a blue or red disc with numbers in a circle near the front of the side? 7027262 or 7027263?
or is the number stamped vertically towards the back with a number similar to that?

[H Larson]

If that car was in Sweden it would not be expensive but a bargin either. That is what you might have to pay for a ´66 GTO conv in that condition here.

Looks like they have changed master brake cylinder to a later unit.

[patox]

Originally Posted by baron_

good options, at least

if it PHS'd as an HO convertible with power windows and otherwise loaded, 24k might not be unreasonable?

It PHS as an 389 WT 1966 convertible with all the options I told you, and some more. It was a US$ 4,200 car at that time.

So I kind of sure it is not the original engine.

Originally Posted by baron_

look at the bent tips on the front 7-blade fan
(high output option for heavy duty cooling or HO motor i think, or a/c)
Also, if it's a '67 quadrajet - that wasn't on 1967 big cars (unless it's a 428) - probably means it's a 67 GTO 400 (67 big cars with 670 heads had carters usually)
bent tip fan, i'd wager it's an HO GTO motor or possibly a 428 - but coulda just added it with the aftermarket a/c system
if it's got a '67 HO motor - still pretty valuable and would make that 24k seem cheaper

look here for the letters we need
and then match that to the code on the back of the block to see what year/model motor it is
?

I dont understand much of this paragraph , but i know I got to go back and take pictures and notes of any letter or number found in the engine .

Originally Posted by baron_

Look at the driver's side of the carb
do you see a blue or red disc with numbers in a circle near the front of the side? 7027262 or 7027263?
or is the number stamped vertically towards the back with a number similar to that?

I got to go see the car again, but now I got a very very bad picture (my camera autofocus seems to be malfuntioning) of the carb, and it seems to me the number is vertically stamped, check the attachment. Is this any help?

[baron_]

yup - it's some help

it means that the carb is not a 1967 carb - it's a 1968 and up (could be a service replacement i guess) - but it means the carb was made after 1968 (1967 it had a different numbering system that yours doesn't have)

if you give us the #, we'll tell you what year and application carb it is


'WT' means it was an original 335 horse 4 spd car - 4 spd cars are worth quite a bit more than auto cars
but not worth as much as the 360 horsepower 'WT' 4 spd
the 'wt' and 'ws' we're talking about is the letter code i boxed in in red in teh pictures above - it's referencing to that

habla espanol o portuguese?

P.S. I noticed it has an automatic carb on it - is it still a 4 spd car or does it have an automatic tranmission now? (the front of the carb has an extra vacuum port on it for auto cars)

[patox]

Originally Posted by baron_

habla espanol o portuguese?

P.S. I noticed it has an automatic carb on it - is it still a 4 spd car or does it have an automatic tranmission now? (the front of the carb has an extra vacuum port on it for auto cars)

Hablo español!, pero trato de darme a entender en ingles

It is still a 4 spd car, and I think it still is the original tranny.
The actual owner told me that time ago, they used to change engines, so sometimes you got an better prep engine, so you just change it, and work on the other one, but transmissions where not easy to find, so if you already got a 4 spd, you should never change it, there are not many Pontiacs here so you can play and interchange them.

I've just talked to the owner, tomorrow I'll go to recheck numbers.... is it necesary to get a mirror to check all the importants numbers?, I'll check the one on the front you told me, and other on the carb and one besides the distributor.

Were is the tranny number? it is easy to check cause I wont be able to lift the car, what else can I check??

On other subject.... witch one is more valuable? 66 or 67 GTO???

Thanks a lot! hope tomorrow I get news and pictures.....

[WDCreech]

"Now thinking it is actually an 67 engine, it should be a 400ci or not?"

The heads are definately '67, but we haven't determined, for sure that the block is. My guess is that it will be, but it may not be a 400. It could be a 428, as they also used 670 heads. to determine what it is, you'll need the block date code, with the engine code.

[baron_]

you speak pretty well

you'll be fine with the number by the distributor and the number at the front of the engine, the one in the red boxes above

the number on the back distributor pad sometimes has a plug drilled into the middle of it - so you might only be able to see half of the numbers - and it's usually covered in grease and hard to read regardless (have to crawl over the fender to get your head back there

make sure you're armed with a flashlight and possibly sandpaper - rub a little on that front spot if you don't see the letter code

the carbuerator # couldn't hurt - sometimes they're valuable


66's and 67's are pretty close in value
66's with tripower get the most money, but average 67's are worth just a little more than 66's (not really enough to matter though - and people will debate it)
more important are the options the car has - and power windows, a/c, power bucket, console? and other stuff are pretty good options


it wouldn't hurt for you to post a picture of the VIN tag that's inside the driver's side door - so we can make sure it's a real GTO convertible (and that the tags haven't been messed with)

and a few pictures of the interior for us just to see


the transmission numbers are on the side of the transmission
there's 3 different numbers to look for (on the 3 main pieces) - but they're pretty hard to see unless you want to crawl under it
if it's got a 'hurst' shifter handle that is small and round (with a flat spot for the 'hurst' lettering) - that's a good sign that it's probably original (these original shifters are kinda rare)

[Fred's red sled]

To your question about the cost...
In your country, you probably aren't planning to do a concourse restoration. So, what you're looking at is a really cool driver GTO. I would figure 6-8K for good paint, 1-2K for misc interior parts/upgrades etc. and another 1-5K under the hood depending on the condition of the engine.
So 25K plus another 10-15K or so and you'll have the sweetest ride in town. If you can swing it, I don't think you'd ever regret dropping the dinero on a ride this rare in your country.
A lot of us have that much or more in our drivers. As to investment value, that's the story you tell your wife to convince her it's a good way to spend her money lol
Go for it. You'll love it!!!.MHO
Fred

[vidguy]

Assuming the car is just dusty, which is what it looks like, with the rust issues you mentioned, if the rest of the undercarriage and such is simply dusty.. 24K is reasonable.

[patox]

OK! here I'am again, just get from "shopping".

I got the pictures of the car, but it seems to me it wont be easy to get conclusion cause, I think the numbers dont match much.

First on the front of the engine (the red boxes) there is #0476145 X4 (first picture)

On the distributor pad there is #F235 a big #2 and D N letters (maybe something in the middle. (2 picture)

The carb is number #7029270XA 0379 (3 picture)

There is another number in something I think is the water pump #30938A (4picture)

The last picture is of the diff.. (5 picture)

I take one of the tranny too, but it show no number at all.....

Next post...... interior...

[patox]

Originally Posted by baron_

it wouldn't hurt for you to post a picture of the VIN tag that's inside the driver's side door - so we can make sure it's a real GTO convertible (and that the tags haven't been messed with)

and a few pictures of the interior for us just to see

The VIN (already checked) its a 2 42 67 6 P 1 20xxx
So it is an 66 convertible GTO made in Pontiac with v8 engine, being a 20xxx is rare I think (or not?) cause this car was sell in 65 acording to PHS.

Here are some interior pictures for you to enjoy!
Serve your self, and as allways, any comment will be apreciated!