[jhein]

I have a repo factory oil pan with with a repo dipstick setup both from BOP. Also running a repo windage tray from BOP. The dipstick setup was spec'd for use with the tray. When I did the first oil change, it took 6 qts and was reading more than 3/4 qt low on the dipstick. BOP calls the pan a 5 qt pan (6 with filter).

So, do I put in 6 qts or fill to the full line on the dipstick?

[Dragncar]

I do not know of any factory pan that takes more than 6 qts.
I ran a stock pan with 6 quarts and raced it for years.
Do you have a larger than normal oil filter ?

[steve25]

Bop states that it’s a 5qt pan and with a filter change if you do not prime the filter then add 6 qts.

So I need to ask if the upper dip stick tube was driven into the block all the way, if not it will shorten up on the dip stick reading, I have seen this before, but of course there is no guarantee that a repro upper tube is not longer then stock or the repro stick is shorter then stock.

The new seal in the cup on the top of the stick might be longer then stock also.

A 1/8th of a inch here and a 1/8th inch there can make a difference!

If you want to just play it plenty safe then I would add another 1/2 Qt and call it done.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

I do not know of any factory pan that takes more than 6 qts.
I ran a stock pan with 6 quarts and raced it for years.
Do you have a larger than normal oil filter ?

Yes, I'm using a Baldwin B9. But, by my calculations, it adds about 6 ounces of volume and I added that much oil to compensate. So that shouldn't make any difference.

[Steve C.]

"Do you have a larger than normal oil filter ?"

Good question, keeping in mind that most of the common oil filters used in our cars do not hold one quart of oil.
Example, the larger NAPA 1049 holds about 3/4 qt.

Fill yours, let it soak up the oil. Tap it, then do it again a few times.


.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by steve25

Bop states that it’s a 5qt pan and with a filter change if you do not prime the filter then add 6 qts.

So I need to ask if the upper dip stick tube was driven into the block all the way, if not it will shorten up on the dip stick reading, I have seen this before, but of course there is no guarantee that a repro upper tube is not longer then stock or the repro stick is shorter then stock.

The new seal in the cup on the top of the stick might be longer then stock also.

A 1/8th of a inch here and a 1/8th inch there can make a difference!

If you want to just play it plenty safe then I would add another 1/2 Qt and call it done.

I'll have to check the tube and see if it's fully seated in the block.

Maybe what I'll do is the next time I change the oil, I'll run a scope up in there and see exactly how far the stick goes past the tray. How close do you want the oil level to be in relation to the windage tray?

Or, it sounds like I can just run 6 qt plus 6 oz and mark that level on the stick and call it good.

[Sirrotica]

Only 1 year did Pontiac use 6 quarts, 1967, 6 in the pan, and 1 in the filter. In 1970 I worked at a Pontiac dealer on the grease rack while doing co-op in my last year as a senior in high school/auto mechanics, and that was one of the things I learned early on from the old timers............. It was important that you marked 7 quarts on the work order so the dealership didn't loose a quart on the sale of parts.

1967 was the first year that Pontiac wenrt from the long PF7 filter to the shorter PF24, the common size sold today. Back in the day everyone that was paying attention opted for the older design PF7, because we thought it was better for the engine. In reality the only thing gained was more filter area, so there likely was a little less pressure drop with the longer filter. You'd also gain a little more time if you tended to neglect oil changes before the filter went into by pass mode.

The pans were not different, the oil gauge/dipstick, was marked differently than 66, or 68. I have never seen, or heard anyone explain why Pontiac engineers increased the oil capacity in 1967. The one good thing is it was proven that you can run the oil capacity over full on all the other years of engines to bandaid oil starvation under high cornering loads (oval track, road racing) without foaming the oil.

[b-man]

Just add until the dipstick reads full.

Run the engine long enough so the filter gets filled then shut it off and let the oil drain back to the pan for about 10 minutes, then add whatever it needs.

Don’t overthink it.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Only 1 year did Pontiac use 6 quarts, 1967, 6 in the pan, and 1 in the filter. In 1970 I worked at a Pontiac dealer on the grease rack while doing co-op in my last year as a senior in high school/auto mechanics, and that was one of the things I learned early on from the old timers............. It was important that you marked 7 quarts on the work order so the dealership didn't loose a quart on the sale of parts.

1967 was the first year that Pontiac wenrt from the long PF7 filter to the shorter PF24, the common size sold today. Back in the day everyone that was paying attention opted for the older design PF7, because we thought it was better for the engine. In reality the only thing gained was more filter area, so there likely was a little less pressure drop with the longer filter. You'd also gain a little more time if you tended to neglect oil changes before the filter went into by pass mode.

The pans were not different, the oil gauge/dipstick, was marked differently than 66, or 68. I have never seen, or heard anyone explain why Pontiac engineers increased the oil capacity in 1967. The one good thing is it was proven that you can run the oil capacity over full on all the other years of engines to bandaid oil starvation under high cornering loads (oval track, road racing) without foaming the oil.

That's interesting. And if that's the case what's the downside? If it's not going to submerge the crank and foam the oil, then why not do it?

[Steve C.]

How much oil is up inside a running engine ?

This situation is certainly a plus...

"...our Performer RPM, valve placement and port size limited the space for oil drain-back holes," says Garcia. "The Performer D-port drain-back holes were modified slightly.
Performer D-port valve spacing is the same as an original Pontiac casting, so we were able to lengthen the oil return trough, giving oil a quicker path back to the pan."

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/hp...ylinder-heads/


.

[Radman]

Any aftermarket changes and the dipstick reading is just a guesstament. I was always thinking that my oil was low using the dipstick. Do what I did. Change the oil and filter, but just put 4 quarts in. Start the engine and let the oil circulate. Stop the engine and read the dipstick. Wait 5 hours and read the dipstick again without running the engine before doing the second reading. Add the 5th quart of oil and repeat the process. It looks like my engine (a 61 389) holds just short of 1 quart in the oil system until it has sat idle for a long enough time for the oil to drain back down. And that is hours not minutes.

[jhein]

Yes, since everything I have is aftermarket from the block to the tubes, dipstick and pan, I just don't trust the dipstick. I guess that's the whole point of the original question. It's tempting to put in an extra quart based on the fact that it was done in '67. However, I'm assuming there is probably a reason why that was stopped. So I think what I'll do is just fill with my 6+ qts and mark that on my stick as the full level.

I did find this information which my take on it was follow the manufacturer's specification. No real surprise there. But I did learn a little bit more about windage.

https://blog.cantonracingproducts.co...-vs-not-enough

[Kenth]

I pour in 6 qts with new filter, drive a few miles, check the level the next day and re-mark the stick if needed.
Then I don't have to worry about how far out of the block the tube is sitting.

FWIW

[Singleton]

What happens when you overfill your engine oil?

https://youtu.be/VaTbfvzNbxQ?si=8GeZwm9HWz9sFAEX

[Mike S]

In my 72 street car, I run 5 quarts for the last 30 years. I change the oil and filter, putting a little oil in the filter and rest in the engine. Dipstick reads full.

On the race car I have a 7 quart Moroso pan and a bigger race filter. One time I didn't have enough oil so used 6 quarts instead of 7 and the car picked up a over a tenth in the quarter mile.

I watched engine masters on this. Engine kept making more power with less and less oil. If I remember right they stopped at 4 quarts. All due to windage.

I think less is better as long as you don't lose oil pressure at rpm.

[Joe-Touring]

Something I’ve long wondered, how is proper oil height determined? I would assume that oil level relative to the pickup is the most important thing, no? To me, a lower dipstick tube could be tweaked and that alone could alter how your dipstick reads.

I guess my main question: is there a measurement you can take from the pan rail height to the pickup that is ideal?

[steve25]

Even in my everyday vehicle ( big V6 )
I can clearly tell when I get 3/4 of a Qt low, the motor clearly puts out more power.

[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Only 1 year did Pontiac use 6 quarts, 1967, 6 in the pan, and 1 in the filter. In 1970 I worked at a Pontiac dealer on the grease rack while doing co-op in my last year as a senior in high school/auto mechanics, and that was one of the things I learned early on from the old timers............. It was important that you marked 7 quarts on the work order so the dealership didn't loose a quart on the sale of parts.

1967 was the first year that Pontiac wenrt from the long PF7 filter to the shorter PF24, the common size sold today. Back in the day everyone that was paying attention opted for the older design PF7, because we thought it was better for the engine. In reality the only thing gained was more filter area, so there likely was a little less pressure drop with the longer filter. You'd also gain a little more time if you tended to neglect oil changes before the filter went into by pass mode.

The pans were not different, the oil gauge/dipstick, was marked differently than 66, or 68. I have never seen, or heard anyone explain why Pontiac engineers increased the oil capacity in 1967. The one good thing is it was proven that you can run the oil capacity over full on all the other years of engines to bandaid oil starvation under high cornering loads (oval track, road racing) without foaming the oil.

This^^^. I have a '65, '66, and '67 GTO. The dipsticks and pans are the same basic length, but the '67 has the 'full' mark one quart higher than the '65 and '66. All original engines. The '65-'66 take about 6 quarts with filter, and the '67 takes 7. All factory pans, dipsticks, engines.

[Kenth]

Pontiac changed to 7 Qts for 1967 (and 1966 when serviced) because of warranty issues due to GTO driver habits.

[steve25]

So what changed in 68 or 69 or 70 for that matter?

I mean in 70 a rear sway bar on the GTO was standard so if anything oil control one would think was even more of a concern, no?