[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Good Lord ....someone was watching over you indeed!

You better go light a candle ...or 2 in church!

What do the block, crank and rods look like?

That pin may be locating pin from top of oil pump? I bet the OP drive shaft retainment damage happened while priming the engine, no dizzy. How it got in cooling system..mystery.

Is the lower bushing wiped out on the dizzy?
Does the drive shaft in service look like the retainer tabs were ground off in service or done by PO on a grinder to get it in?
Which end was up?

PIN Might be a head locating dowel pin, someone may have driven it thru and replaced it. Not a big deal if that is what it is.

Definitely get both magnafluxed before proceeding.

This may be your FIRST rebuild, but whomever did this one previously, it should be their LAST ONE!

It really lks like a nice car, I'd be looking very carefully at everything, not just the engine internals!

[tom s]

I have heard of the block dowel pins for the heads getting knocked into the water jackets before!Tom

[mgarblik]

Damage is not catastrophic yet. Isn't this fun? Finding all kinds of parts loose in the engine and yet it runs fine? As mentioned, you need to verify the distributor bushings and the housing are OK. You will want a new oil pump, pick-up and drive anyway, so no real harm done. There is a guide loop cast into the block that the oil pump drive goes through to align it and hold it in place when removing the distributor. There is a good chance that loop is broken off and now missing based on the way the driveshaft was bent. You can still use the block if it's broken off. The casting will need to cleaned up and a few other minor mods to make it go together without too much trouble. So your still in the game! Based on what I saw in the early pics, you will have some ring/piston damage as well.

[63gpman]

Those bowls look to have had a decent amount of work done to them based on the photo you have posted of the chambers w/out the valves in them. Any markings on the ends of the heads? I can't imagine how a 2nd oil pump shaft would end up in there. You can't just have 2 of them.

[PontiacJim1959]

Originally Posted by 63gpman

I had issues with the flywheel bolts hitting the springs. Easy fix was to replace the bolts with the Mr. Gasket 914 thin head bolts. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...SABEgKCRfD_BwE

X2 on this one. If you have a Hays billet flywheel, the machined recess where the flywheel bolts attach to the crank is not as deep as factory. I experienced the exact same think. When I let out my clutch, it always has a "whine" to it when it was slipped. I did not learn what it was until I disassembled my engine for a rebuild.

The factory bolt heads are too thick and hit the clutch disc springs. Click on my picture and you will see the shiny spring coils where the bolts where hitting.

While the transmission is out, and if you do not plan on rebuilding it, I might have a shop install a new front bearing and gasket seal. With the pilot bearing that worn, the input shaft may have been wobbling around enough to cause wear to the bearing.

Also, whatever pilot bearing you get, I would slide it on the input shaft for fit. The pin on the end my look good, but be worn down.

[tom s]

It does have dished pistons at least.Tom

[wbnapier]

I've answered the questions below. For one of my own, my camshaft sprocket is stuck. Obviously, the chain is still on and my gear puller arms don't sit well on the chain. Does anyone have any tricks to get it off? I can grind down the gear puller arms, but hoping there is some other solution.

STEELCITYFIREBIRD,

I haven't done a real inspection yet, still in disassembly. Afterwards, I'll clean everything of importance for the rebuild, inspect, measure, post some photos, etc...

I was unaware of any locating pin for the oil pump, I'll check on that.

I will look at the dizzy bushing later and the oil pump driveshaft. When I pulled them, nothing major jumped out at me. Photos to come.

mgarblik,

I was unaware of the oil shaft guide loop. When I'm done with tearing it down, I will take some pics... Hopefully, it is still there.

63gpman,

I will CC the chambers... I have a cheap kit I bought online and I'll see how it goes and post results with better photos. It would be a nice bonus if the heads are decent.

PontiacJim1959,

You are correct, it is Hays billet flywheel. I will be purchasing a new flywheel with the rotating assembly that I assume I'll be buying at this point. I'll make sure the bolts clear! The tranny is a "modern" Muncie, Auto-Gear case, upgraded, etc.. I will think about the front bearing.

[tom s]

let me know,I might buy your old flywheel

[tom s]

I have 48s on my 455 but dont remember the amount of dish.Tom

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

The pin I referenced from the pump is the built in locating pin on end of driven shaft on pump.

See photos:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mel-m54ds

Not likely if in cooling system, or if somehow yours is still intact.. more likely a cylinder head locating dowel pin. A pic would be easier to tell. May be a main cap locating dowel pin too. Hopefully not!

Lots of pictures (together and apart) help us see what you got and may not recognize as a problem.
Keep at it brother
Luke
😎

[tom s]

I think if in the cooling system the head dowel is the only one that could get in there.Tom

[wbnapier]

I have the block and heads completely disassembled except for the valve guides and a single dowel pin that is sheared off on the mains. I'll leave those for the machinist. This was a lot of work! The square drive pipe plug at the top driverside stripped and I had to drill it out and fight it for a bit.

Anyway, I'll chase the threads tomorrow and maybe grind away some casting flash from the valley. Also, I need to play with my micrometers and bore gauge to get some experience.

Some photos below and a couple of questions/comments.

Why is there a blocked off water port on the intake side of the heads? Standard?

The rear main seal was a two-piece rubber one that the previous builder had put a lot of sealer on... I hear that's a no, no.

The oil driveshaft/dizzy loop is there. It is a really rough looking part of the casting.

I ccEd the combustion chambers and they came out to 72cc. If I had 0.01 deck clearance, maybe 10cc piston dish, head gasket, with 0.30 overbore (4.181) and 4.21 stroke I was probably at 10.5:1 - 11.1:1. If my math is right.

I've been ordering parts from Butler. ARP head bolts and studs. Some gaskets, etc... My goal was 1 hp per 1 cubic inch with vacuum for power brakes, running 91 octane keeping the '65 tri-power set up. The gentleman I'm speaking to doesn't think this is necessarily doable with unported cast iron heads and the tri-power. Anyway, I'm moving forward.

I'm thinking of ordering a ready-to-assemble balanced rotating assembly from them.

[PontiacJim1959]

Only the passenger head gets the water outlet nipple - that is normal.

Pics are of my 455 block. Grind/smooth the casting flash in the lifter galley using a die grinder and carbide bit. Don't get aggressive with the pressure applied to the grinder as it can catch on the round edges and jump on you. Go in easy and pare away the casting until smooth.

The Butler stroker kit is the best bang for your buck. Talk with Butler and give them the CC numbers of your heads and they will let you know what dish CC's you will need.

Your builder is probably correct on the heads. 1HP per CI may be a slight stretch, but you can do a clean up of the intake runners, port match the intakes using an intake gasket, and do a good 3-angle valve job to improve air flow. Skip the HP numbers and go for TQ as that's how you build a good street engine.

[wbnapier]

PontiacJim1959,

Please see the attached photo of the intake side of the head. Circled in red is the capped water port I was curious about. Why is this blocked?

[b-man]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

Please see the attached photo of the intake side of the head. Circled in red is the capped water port I was curious about. Why is this blocked?

The reason is the heads were designed to be able to be used on both sides of the engine. They are all cast and machined identically so the factory didn’t have to produce dedicated left and right cylinder heads.

The heads have water ports on both ends. Both front ports (heads bolted to the block) are used for the front thermostat crossover. The passenger side head has a heater nipple pressed in to the rear water port, the driver’s side head is simply plugged off since that rear water port isn’t needed.

[wbnapier]

Here's some notes I've made to start the conversation with the machinist.

Any other suggestions?

Pontiac 455 – Street – 91 Octane – Vacuum for Power Brakes

1) Cleaning / paint removal
a. Block
b. Heads
c. Intake
d. Water pump

2) Dowel pin removal (1 left)

3) Magna Flux

4) Measure and align bore main bore if necessary

5) Measure and align bore camshaft bore if necessary

6) Bore & hone as needed – Stock was 4.151. I am currently 0.030 over at approx. 4.181

7) TBD typical Pontiac block modifications, like lifter bore oiling, thrust bearing, etc…

8) Coordinate to order balanced, rotating assembly, and camshaft from Butler Performance
a. Ensure that the correct piston diameter and main journal bearings are ordered
b. Coordinate to ensure deck height / quench

9) Receive rotating assembly & Camshaft
a. Measure / verify piston diameters
b. Final hone cylinder bores to match w/ correct clearance
c. Verify Main bore / bearing / crankshaft clearance
d. Verify rod bore / bearing clearance
e. Verify camshaft straightness / true / fit

10) Measure 1-piece Bop Engineering RMS and rear cap and adjust to fit.
a. For questions, Wade Congdon - info@bopengineering.com
b. See instructions for tolerance and details

11) Head work
a. Confirm combustion chamber size at 72cc + / - and advise on valve train
b. 3-angle valve job
c. Bronze guides
d. Heat x-over block?

[PontiacJim1959]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

PontiacJim1959,

Please see the attached photo of the intake side of the head. Circled in red is the capped water port I was curious about. Why is this blocked?

That is correct. The other end of the head has the open hole where coolant passes through from the intake manifold water crossover.

Because each head is the same, one head only gets the heater core nipple which circulates the cooland through the core and head, and you will see the onter line coming from the heater core that goes to the water pump to make a "circuit" for the water to circulate and provide heat inside the car.

So the back water passage on the head supplies the hot coolant to the heater core. Now it does not matter which head gets the water outlet nipple as both heads are the same. The shop will knock these out when hot tanking. The important part is that the shop orientates one of the heads for use on the passenger side and installs the heater nipple on the rear water outlet. If they screw up, you won't be able to install your intake.

Pics show the water nipple in the passenger side head and the cup in the drivers side head.

Some will add a 2nd heater nipple and tie the 2 together into each other as this is said to help with head cooling on the side not having the water nipple and coolant flow.

[mgarblik]

Looks like you are on a good path. A couple of tidbits. Your #4 and 5 on your list. Your block will likely need some attention in the main housing bore area. Look very carefully at the main cap that has the broken dowel. The cap is most likely broken at the dowel hole as well. Generally, line boring is not needed unless you are fitting new billet main caps. I much prefer line honing if not. Less material removal, better finish and more accurate. As far as the cam tunnel. Even though some folks on here talk up the woes of the Pontiac cam tunnel, I have not found that to be the case. Very few I work with need any line boring/honing of the cam tunnel. How did the camshaft turn in the block? If it spun like butter and the cam bearings don't have any weird wear, you should be OK. Oversize cam bearings are not readily available, but there are a few sets out there in an emergency. From the one pic, it looks like the oil pump driveshaft loop is damaged a little or crunched-in on one side. Just make sure the hole is round and smooth. The exact size doesn't matter. With iron un-ported heads, build for torque and a HP peak around 5200 RPM's. 455 HP will be a little bit of a stretch with your stated goals and parts. 500 Ft. lbs. of torque is very possible. Good luck and have fun.

[wbnapier]

mgarblik,

You are right, I confused the words bore and hone. Noted on the camshaft bores.

I will check the cap for the broken dowel and bring it to the attention of the machinist.

Yes, the casting of the oil pump driveshaft loop is sloppy. I'll also bring that to the attention of the machinist.

I've finished grinding off the casting flash, chasing the threads, and cleaning.

The block is off the stand and onto a cradle.

I'll hopefully get the block dropped off this week somewhere.

[Joe's Garage]

It's not designed to support the shaft while the engine is running, just to hold the shaft in position when it is not clamped / held-in-position between the distributor and oil pump.

Basically, to keep the shaft from falling out until it is positioned to attach the oil pump to the distributor.

When the oil pump is bolted in and the shaft is in and the distributor is installed, the shaft should NOT touch the loop.

Have your machinist check that it isn't cracked or damaged where it would interfere with the driveshaft when it is spinning.