#61  
Old 04-19-2020, 11:48 PM
65sport 65sport is offline
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[QUOTE=wbnapier;6132030]Here's some notes I've made to start the conversation with the machinist.

8) Coordinate to order balanced, rotating assembly, and camshaft from Butler Performance

Getting the rotating assembly from Butler is a great idea, you can get the dished pistons you need to run on the 91 octane. Here is something you might want to look at:
https://butlerperformance.com/i-2462...tegory:1459545

This will put you very close to 9.5:1 if you zero deck it. Strongly recommend you do that. So you have power brakes, if that limits your cam selection then you might want to lower the compression a tad bit more. You could un-shroud the valve pockets on the heads a little seeings how the bore is bigger. I'd use the head gasket as a guide if I did that. You being capable of CC'ing the heads makes that a DYI job. I believe Pete McCarthy has some good guidelines for modifying chambers.

IMO, seeings you are .030" over now, I would call Butler and ask for the exact piston skirt dimension and how much clearance you need to run for the kind of driving you will do. You might be able to only hone it to fit, seeings how these are forged pistons. If you deck it, you can get it torque plated at the same time and that's desirable for plasma moly rings.

Otherwise, you may have to go bigger on the bore size. I hope you don't have to. Get it sonic checked if necessary.

Just a thought.

  #62  
Old 04-19-2020, 11:58 PM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Thanks 65sport.

I ran the calculator, and you're right, if I use a thicker than the normal head gasket.

Good price too on the parts. I'll print that for reference.

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1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #63  
Old 04-20-2020, 01:17 AM
65sport 65sport is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbnapier View Post
Thanks 65sport.

I ran the calculator, and you're right, if I use a thicker than the normal head gasket.

Good price too on the parts. I'll print that for reference.
I recommend coordinating with Butler (like you said) and find out the stack height (1/2 the stroke + rod length + piston compression height). Then decide on a head gasket (if running cast iron heads and no "power adders" a stock head gasket is fine). So I'd have the block decked to work with your choice of head gasket leaving around .040" piston to head clearance. Usually a flush (zero deck) works out good if your gasket is close to .040".

Are you running aftermarket studs on the mains ? If you have the mains aligned, make sure and have whatever studs or bolts you intend for final assembly are used during the machine process.

AND, be careful with your torque values when using aftermarket studs in place of stock bolts on any part of the engine if the thread pitch is different from top to bottom. Torque specs are engineered for the coarse threads of the stock fasteners. Finer threads produce more leverage if the same torque setting on the wrench is employed plus the finer threads generate different thread friction under the load.

Thread pitch, if not properly compensated for, can ruin the entire build. Ask me how I know.

Make sure your machinist is familiar with these things. Never assume anything.

  #64  
Old 04-20-2020, 01:37 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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65sport,

Mains will have ARP studs, heads will have ARP bolts.

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1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #65  
Old 04-20-2020, 11:51 AM
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FYI
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  #66  
Old 04-20-2020, 02:04 PM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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STEELCITYFIREBIRD,

Good eye.

Attached is a better photo with a crack circled.
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__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #67  
Old 04-20-2020, 03:23 PM
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Was the centering pin still intact on the oil pumps driven/input shaft.

I have two likely possibilities of what went on.
BTWThe one found in the pan looks like it took QUITE a few strikes.

Most likely... someone forgot to put it in when assembling the bottom end and ground the retaining "ears" off, installed from top, then it fell in pan later when dizzy was removed or entire engine was rolled on stand without dizzy in place.

Or....much less likely

Centering pin got broken off, ( priming??) and pretty much same possibilities as first theory , except retainer ears wore off on block casting. (not likely as shaft is much harder metal than block).

I myself wouldn't order anything till all main engine components pass inspection.

----------

You removed all the dowels that locate the main caps?
(except the broken ones)

More pictures (with good lighting)!
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Last edited by STEELCITYFIREBIRD; 04-20-2020 at 03:38 PM.
  #68  
Old 04-20-2020, 11:01 PM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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The block and heads are at the machinist. They will repair the crack and don't think it's an issue. They drill and tap small holes in the crack and insert a special fastener that tightens it up, and pressure test. Pretty cool.

I had a good vibe there, they seem to be very competent.

I'll get more feedback Friday.

Good news, the #48 heads have been ported. Maybe that opens up some horsepower possibilities?

__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #69  
Old 04-21-2020, 12:38 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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STEELCITYFIREBIRD,

Yes, the centering pin was still there. See photo.

Also, a photo of where the 2nd oil pump driveshaft likely struck the crankshaft counterweight.
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__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #70  
Old 04-21-2020, 12:40 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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More photos of the old rotating assembly and flywheel. It's all a moot point now, but still interesting.
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__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #71  
Old 04-21-2020, 11:49 AM
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It is interesting, may help someone in the future.😎

  #72  
Old 04-23-2020, 12:57 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Can someone help me identify the item in the photo that's on the driverside firewall?
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__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #73  
Old 04-23-2020, 01:08 AM
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Accelerator pedal pivot.

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2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23
  #74  
Old 04-23-2020, 01:26 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Thanks b-man.

From the engine compartment, what connects to that? When I pulled the engine I cannot remember. I'll take a look tomorrow.

__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #75  
Old 04-23-2020, 01:45 AM
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Nothing connects to it on the engine side of the firewall.

Your accelerator pedal operates the throttle cable under the dash that goes through the firewall to the carburetor.

If you remove the clip on the end of the pedal shaft you can replace the two pivot bushings if they’re worn.

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1964 Tempest Coupe LS3/4L70E/3.42
1964 Le Mans Convertible 421 HO/TH350/2.56
2002 WS6 Convertible LS1/4L60E/3.23
  #76  
Old 04-23-2020, 08:02 PM
TedRamAirII TedRamAirII is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b-man View Post
Nothing connects to it on the engine side of the firewall.

Your accelerator pedal operates the throttle cable under the dash that goes through the firewall to the carburetor.

If you remove the clip on the end of the pedal shaft you can replace the two pivot bushings if they’re worn.
The time to do that is NOW! It will be a lot harder later!

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  #77  
Old 04-24-2020, 12:03 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Are these the nylon bushings as shown in the photo?
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__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #78  
Old 04-24-2020, 06:55 AM
gtospieg gtospieg is offline
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those look correct

  #79  
Old 04-26-2020, 11:22 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Updates...

I've been cleaning and painting small parts, laying things out, etc...

I rigged up a strap to weld to the oil pick up as well.

I spoke to the machinist Friday, with another call scheduled Monday.

If that call goes well, I'm hoping to drive up there Tuesday and deliver some more parts (flywheel, mains stud kit, dowel pins, etc.) and meet him in person.

Later in the week, I need to focus on getting a rotating assembly and valve train order moving.

I'm trying to move fast, as I have time due to the virus and only working part-time. That's only going to last for a couple more weeks.
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__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #80  
Old 05-01-2020, 09:36 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Updates,

I had a ding in the #8 cylinder, which wouldn't clean up at +0.060", so it is getting sleeved. Everything will then be +0.040". See photo.

I had forgotten to leave a set of old valves with the machinist to confirm my combustion chamber size and flow 1 intake/exhaust port... A new pair was delivered to him yesterday, and hopefully, they can CC them today, so I can order the rotating assembly. That was a one week delay.

The other new 7 intake and exhaust valves are on order coming to me. They were the valves that will work with the stump puller cam, which I will be using.

I've been cleaning and prepping more parts. In this, I noticed my new fuel pump doesn't clear the timing cover. I have an insulator I can use as a spacer, which works... I don't like that as it moves the arm away from the eccentric relative to stock. What do you think?
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__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
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