[Stripes]

We installed the comp hyd Roller lifters in our 455 on a butler cam (236/242@50). Butler called for one turn in from zero preload, Comp said 1/2 turn from 0.

I set the lifters up with one turn of preload before the lifters were pumped as directed. When we cranked the engine, the lifters sounded very noisy and loud (IE loose). Louder than Rhodes lifters.

Now that the lifters are pumped up, what's the best process to reset the preload? Can I back the nut off when the lifter is on the heel of the cam and reset? I tried to back a nut off while it was running, but I was having trouble finding zero.

Any suggestions for preload on these lifters to quiet them down? One turn didn't seem like enough. Check out the clip and tell me if this is too much lifter noise. Thanks!!

[steve25]

The best way to set them is with the motor running so you will need to set up some card board layed in along the Exh port side of the head wedged inbetween the valve springs and the top of the head to block off the oil splash that will take place, and also lay a long wide section of aluminum foil out on top of the Exh ports.
Cut slits in it to get around the plug wires.

Next with the motor running back off on the poly lock setting until the lifter clicks if it's not doing so already.
Then also back off on the inner hex nut.
Then tighten down on the poly lock until the clicking stops and then go 1/2 turn more.
Next tighten down on the inner hex nut , then tighten up on the poly lock like 1/4 turn more and all should be well.

[Cliff R]

I adjust all hydraulic lifters these days up from bottomed out vs down from zero lash, . These leaves less oil under them and less plunger travel. There are also many versions of HR lifters floating around out there. Some are very short travel, others have a lot of travel in them. It appears that the manufactures were experimenting with various designs over the years trying to perfect the product and/of offering various versions of them. I've measured a few sets we installed here down around .060" travel and others up closer to .150", where others were closer to .100".

If you insert a .020" feeler gauge between the rocker arm and valve tip and bottom them out they will all have exactly .020" of plunger travel and not enough travel to make much noise if you get a potential "ticker" in the bunch from having a little faster leak down rate than the others. Another viable method is to simply put the lifter on the base circle of the cam, slowly tighten down the locknut till it pushes out all the oil (usually takes about 120 seconds or so), then back them up 1/2 turn you'll be fine.

In any case in theory it shouldn't matter where you set them within their range of travel provided the plungers are completely bottomed out to hitting the retainers. I've found that running them at zero lash then down 1/2 turn or so will more times than not result in more noise than there should be once the engine is placed in service. I believe this happens with the Morels more than others as plunger to body tolerances aren't held as close as the Johnson's, for example. In any case it will hurt nothing to "tight lash" them and they are a lot more likely to run quieter than leaving a lot of plunger travel.......Cliff

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Cliff R

I adjust all hydraulic lifters these days up from bottomed out vs down from zero lash, . These leaves less oil under them and less plunger travel. There are also many versions of HR lifters floating around out there. Some are very short travel, others have a lot of travel in them. It appears that the manufactures were experimenting with various designs over the years trying to perfect the product and/of offering various versions of them. I've measured a few sets we installed here down around .060" travel and others up closer to .150", where others were closer to .100".

If you insert a .020" feeler gauge between the rocker arm and valve tip and bottom them out they will all have exactly .020" of plunger travel and not enough travel to make much noise if you get a potential "ticker" in the bunch from having a little faster leak down rate than the others. Another viable method is to simply put the lifter on the base circle of the cam, slowly tighten down the locknut till it pushes out all the oil (usually takes about 120 seconds or so), then back them up 1/2 turn you'll be fine.

In any case in theory it shouldn't matter where you set them within their range of travel provided the plungers are completely bottomed out to hitting the retainers. I've found that running them at zero lash then down 1/2 turn or so will more times than not result in more noise than there should be once the engine is placed in service. I believe this happens with the Morels more than others as plunger to body tolerances aren't held as close as the Johnson's, for example. In any case it will hurt nothing to "tight lash" them and they are a lot more likely to run quieter than leaving a lot of plunger travel.......Cliff

By using this method does it make all conversations about good or bad HR lifters mute?

[ponjohn]

Does this method change the push rod length?

[455-4+1]

Hey Cliff, thanks for the explanation. I have subscribed as I may be running a Hyd roller for the 1st time soon.
Just to clarify, you said that by placing a 020 feeler gauge between rocker and valve, you will get exactly 020 clearance at the plunger.
Would it not be less than that due to rocker ratio?.
Which got me thinking, when you set say 018 lash clearance at the valve with a solid and a 1.5 rocker, then do the same with a 1.8 rocker, does the cam mind the difference in lash?

[Schurkey]

Interesting procedure, Cliff. I've gotta think about this some.

Originally Posted by ponjohn

By using this method does it make all conversations about good or bad HR lifters moot?

FIFY.

Junk lifters are still junk. This just limits the amount they can excessively leak, and therefore somewhat limits the amount of noise they can make.

Originally Posted by ponjohn

Does this method change the push rod length?

Changing the depth of the lifter plunger doesn't change the push rod length. However, it does change the effective length from lifter foot to rocker arm. You might WANT to lengthen the pushrod to account for the deeper lifter plunger in order to preserve pushrod-rocker geometry. How important this is is debateable, and will depend on whether the pushrod is the right length with normal vs. deep lifter plunger; and how much travel the plunger has. I've seen lifters with hardly any travel--just a few thousandths--and some with more than a quarter-inch of travel.

Originally Posted by 455-4+1

you said that by placing a 020 feeler gauge between rocker and valve, you will get exactly 020 clearance at the plunger.
Would it not be less than that due to rocker ratio?

Yes, rocker ratio matters in terms of .020 feeler at the valve tip not equaling .020 lifter plunger movement.

[Cliff R]

When you mock up the engine to determine pushrod length with a hydraulic lifter the spring pressure will push all the oil out of the lifters and plungers will be bottomed out. When doing this, even with new lifters make sure to wait a couple of minutes on each one as you tighten the lock-nuts with the lifter on the base circle of the cam. Gently turn down the lock-nut until all the oil is pushed out and the plunger solidly in the bottom of the lifter. Then turn the engine and keep adjusting the adj pushrod to determine ideal geometry. I look for the narrowest pattern and closest to center that way we know we're getting the most at the valve available from the lobe profile.

When you determine the correct length it will be too long, so buy the next shorter length available. For example, if you determine that 9.200" is perfect with the plungers bottomed out, you'll probably be looking at something closer to 9.150" (they usually are offered in .050" differences) as you'll be adjusting the lash up about half a turn or so, or may use a feeler of your choice to precisely place the plungers in the lifter bodies, etc......Cliff

[Schurkey]

That'd work.

[ponjohn]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Interesting procedure, Cliff. I've gotta think about this some.




FIFY.

Junk lifters are still junk. This just limits the amount they can excessively leak, and therefore somewhat limits the amount of noise they can make.


Changing the depth of the lifter plunger doesn't change the push rod length. However, it does change the effective length from lifter foot to rocker arm. You might WANT to lengthen the pushrod to account for the deeper lifter plunger in order to preserve pushrod-rocker geometry. How important this is is debateable, and will depend on whether the pushrod is the right length with normal vs. deep lifter plunger; and how much travel the plunger has. I've seen lifters with hardly any travel--just a few thousandths--and some with more than a quarter-inch of travel.


Yes, rocker ratio matters in terms of .020 feeler at the valve tip not equaling .020 lifter plunger movement.

Of course BUT this may limit the noise a junk lifter makes and maybe no noise so it would be considered to a bad HR lifter.



I think the answer is yes.