[69gtocv]

David, my 69 convertible is a 4th week of June 69 car built in Baltimore. My block is #'s matching and I also have the 70 9799914 stamping. My guess was they ran out of 69 stamped blocks and had to start using the 70's before the 70 model cars were built. Jeff

[David Jones]

Jeff, thats the kind of info I was hoping this thread would generate. Greg, I'm with you on the wishing these things could talk issue. I'd be asking mine a million questions!!! I'm probably as curious about the #48 heads as anything. Did they come on the car new???

[rwfisher]

I ran into this same issue for my '69 T/A. An F259 WQ block with a '70 stamping. After a long discussion(Email)with Jim Mattison of Pontiac Historical Services he confirmed what I had thought. The release of the new model (1970) Firebirds were held and released as what many people call 70-1/2 model year. Due to this late release the '69 models build ran a bit longer. The newer '70 stamp blocks were available so they got placed in many cars. Another thing you will probably find is that you have the motor mount bosses for the new 1970 block but they are probably only drilled for the earlier 1969 mounts (Mine is this way). Again this is speculation on our part but Jim has a lot of knowledge about this stuff and it seems practicle. I've owned my car for 15yrs and thought I had it pretty well documented. Imagine my suprise when I pulled my motor and found a June 1969 block with a WQ stamp, I thought I could feel my wallet shrink!!!!!
Again, you probably at least have a "correct" block and the VIN stamp should verify the rest.

[rwfisher]

My bad guy's. I'm usually on the Firebird post and a slip of the mouse put me here. Obviously the info on the Firebird release is irrelevant but the reason why the block was placed in this car is probably the same.

[goathead68]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by David Jones:
I'm probably as curious about the #48 heads as anything. Did they come on the car new??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

David,

I know that this subject has been rehashed time and time again. All my info points to #16s on auto trans cars, #48s on manual trans equipped '69 GTOs. The two McCarthy books and the resto guide say so. I'm guessing that these two heads are identical except for the part number.

For '70, #12s were on stick cars; #13s on automatics.

Again, you'll know more when you get the heads back from Pontiac Dude and can look at the casting dates. Who knows, maybe the factory ran out of #16s and they plopped a set of #48s on the engine just to get the car out the door.

[goathead68]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Greg Reid:
BTW, my car is matching numbers except for two things and I can't understand the reason for changing them. The intake is a '69 intake and the rear end is an Oldsmobile 2.93 or so open rear end.
Why swap just the rearend and the intake? And for parts that are just run of the mill?
If these things could only talk.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Greg;

A prior owner probably blew the rear end (a kid maybe?) and a junk yard rear was cheaper than getting a new gear set. The original intake may have developed a problem, too, and the bone yard was the best way to go.

As much as we care for these cars now, at one time they were someone's main mode of transportation and used parts may have been the only way to keep 'em on the road.

And I agree, all these odd old cars surely have a few good stories to tell.

[Greg Reid]

Normally, I would think that too but my car seems to have been adult owned since new.
The original owner kept it for approximately 30 years and bought it when he was in his mid 40s. He died at the age of 80 and I'm told that the second owner was his mechanic.
The third owner bought it just to sell and sold it to me after about 2 weeks...so that makes me effectively the 3rd owner.
One of the things that drew me to this car is that it's never been owned more than 50 miles from where it was sold. The dealership still exists here in Atlanta.
Still though, it seems logical that the only reason for changing these parts is that they went bad at some time over the years and salvage parts took their place.

[David Jones]

Greg, mine came from Boomershine in Atlanta.

[Greg Reid]

Wow...That's exactly where mine came from. Sold May of '68.
I wanna see if I can get a tag surround from them for my license plate. You interested?

[David Jones]

Greg, that would be cool! My car came to me with a very similar set of circumstances to yours. A good friend of mine (Chris) came by the office one day driving this kinda ratty, smoking GTO. He had bought it from a young guy he had met though his job. Chris has a 69 Mustang and had mentioned that around this guy and he volunteered he had a GTO he would be interested in selling. Chris bought it and planned on running it on Ebay, after he smoked the tires a few times. Anyway, on about his 2nd trip to the office in it, we began to talk price and before I knew what had happened I owned a kinda ratty smoking 1969 GTO. The guy Chris bought it froms family was the 2nd owner and since Chris only had it a couple of weeks I consider myself the 3rd owner. Luckily the carb was the smoking problem and lotsa elbow grease has cured most of the rattiness. Still needs a little metal repair around the wheelwells and a good paint job, but for what I paid (7k)I feel I stole it.

[Greg Reid]

Interesting story. I paid a similar price for mine...about $6500. It was on eBay but it was a local seller. He even delivered it to me at no charge.
Now that I think of it, there may have been one other owner between the older gentleman and the seller but at any rate there was only about 5 years between the original owner and me.
I plan to check on availability of the license frames. If they are available, I'll let you know the price and details.
BTW, I just ran across this pic on the Ultimate GTO site. It was supposedly taken at Boomershine.

[David Jones]

Thanks Greg. I wonder if one of the people in the picture sold either of our cars. I'm going to push my buddy Chris harder to contact the 2nd owner for me or give me the info. My curiosity is up. Let me know about the frame.

[69gtocv]

David, I had to go back out and look at my block date code. It is f179 (June 17,69). So my block was stamped 8 days before yours. Yet, my car was built 4th week of June and shipped almost immediately on June 30th from Baltimore to Oshawa, Canada. What is the block stamping # (not the partial vin) on yours by the YS code? Mine is 0813165. I don't recall where you said your car was built at. Seems like Baltimore was using their blocks as soon at they came in. I wonder since you think yours might have been built on July 10th or 4th week of July like your data plate shows, that the cars sat out in the lot til they were shipped on August 19th ???. Was this common practice? Maybe someone on the boards has some knowledge of this. Jeff

[69gtocv]

Also, was there just one engine block foundary?

[David Jones]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I wonder since you think yours might have been built on July 10th or 4th week of July like your data plate shows, that the cars sat out in the lot til they were shipped on August 19th ???. Was this common practice? Maybe someone on the boards has some knowledge of this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The more I think I find out the more questions come up. Somebody out there knows. I don't know where the car was built. Is that in the PHS material or does the data tag hold that info?
The only stamped numbers I can make out are the are the last digits of the VIN #. What else should be there? I was under the impression that a number that starts with 2 and includes the last 9 (?) numbers of the VIN was all that was stamped on the block. (up by the timing cover). Somebody school me.....

[David Jones]

OK I've re read this whole thread. Greg referenced an "engine unit #". Others mentioned the same thing. I passed it off as the partial VIN stamping. Where do I need to look? His picture looks like in the head/block area. Passenger side?

[David Jones]

I'll look tonight.
I only thought I new everything.

[goathead68]

David,

There's a letter in your VIN, like 242379(letter)123456. The letter tells which the plant the car was built at.

Here's the breakdown on that. <UL TYPE=SQUARE> <LI> P-Pontiac <LI> B-Baltimore <LI> G-Framingham <LI> A-Atlanta <LI> R-Arlington <LI> Z-Fremont[/list]

[David Jones]

Mine has a "P" in it. Also on the data tag "Pont" is mixed in with the top line of letters and numbers. After ruining a brand new block paint job I have the motor series number 0841486 & YS. I understand the YS part. How does the 0841486 fit in? What does that mean? A couple of you guys have mentioned that number would be on my PHS documents or on the build sheet. I don't see it or even a place for it on either! On the build sheet under the engine it simply has YS. The only document I have from the PHS that is specifically for my car is a copy of what I assume is the dealer invoice. Nothing else I received from them is specific to my car. Everything else is generic. Order info, specifications, available options etc. What papers did they not send me?

[69gtocv]

David, the 0813165 on my engine and the 0841486 on yours are the "production engine number" or "engine serial number". From what I understand, and hopefully someone will confirm or correct, this was a running count of the V8 engines produced since the first one (1955?)So, like on yours, it was the 841,486 pontiac V8 made. Now maybe that's wrong, because why, since our blocks were produced only 8 days apart, would our serial #'s be 28,000 apart? Again, hopefully someone will chime in with some concrete answers. I also have the copy of the order form (invoice) from PHS for my car. There is nothing on there as to the engine manifest code (YS in our cases) on it. I don't have my build sheet so I can't comment on what would/should be on it.
Goathead 68, my #'s matching heads on my 69 are 62's. I saw in the Gto Red Book that they said 400's with AC only would have the 62's. My car did not come with AC. Guess there is always exceptions. Jeff