[i4abuygto]

I have a friend that has asked me about my knowledge with Pontiacs.
He wants to close the "gills" in a his rear quarter panel for a late 60s firebird. I did not ask him the year.
What process would you advise? I thought - cut the gills out in a circle cut and weld in a new piece of sheet metal. He wanted to just mud them with body filler.
What do you recommend?
If it needs to be welded that would be me doing the work as I have the shop to do it.
What gage sheet metal is on these 60s cars? What gage sheet metal should I use for the "patch"?
Has anyone ever done this before?
Let me know.
Thanks
Mark

[irgoatmike]

Well, I wouldn't mud the gills in. I guess that leaves welding in a patch panel and I believe I used 18 gauge in past. It has been a while, so let's have someone else chime in on the thickness. irgoatmike

[400 4spd.]

You could get some Camaro quarter panel sections and put a piece of those in.

[400 4spd.]

Another option would be splitting the depression vertically, hammering flat and welding. Then grind and blast clean.

[694.1]

Why not just buy an effing Camaro?

[JSPONT]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

Another option would be splitting the depression vertically, hammering flat and welding. Then grind and blast clean.

This is what I would do. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[i4abuygto]

I did not think about cutting the vertical seam and hammering flat -- that is a good idea. I haven't looked at the "dish" at all -- would it be easy to hammer flat with one verticle cut. Would I have to cut the dish in 2 places? Would I need to heat it up at all ---- concerned about warping the metal.
Thanks for your comments and ideas.

[i4abuygto]

I think getting Camaro quarters would be more work than just cutting out and fitting a new piece of metal.

[JSPONT]

Originally Posted by i4abuygto

I did not think about cutting the vertical seam and hammering flat -- that is a good idea. I haven't looked at the "dish" at all -- would it be easy to hammer flat with one verticle cut. Would I have to cut the dish in 2 places? Would I need to heat it up at all ---- concerned about warping the metal.
Thanks for your comments and ideas.

If you know how, you can use a shrinking hammer with a dolly on the back of the panel.

[400 4spd.]

I don't know what your experience level is with welding body panels, so please don't take offense at my comments or suggestions.

When the panel was formed in the die, it stretched the metal to form those depressions. That area of the panel is the tightest (hardest) working area on the whole piece. You will NOT flatten those areas with a shrinking hammer and dolly alone. That is too much metal to move in such a small area. Plus, access from behind isn't the greatest. What you will probably accomplish is stretching the metal outwards to the point that you end up buying those Camaro pieces anyway.

I have been doing this stuff for 40 years and I'm finishing a 68 Bird right now, so I am familiar with those areas. If I had to eliminate those depressions, I would split them with a narrow cut-off wheel or air saw where ever the angles intersect. There needs to be enough metal removed to keep the flaps from binding against each other when hammered down, so a fine air gap is best.
I would probably start by removing all of the paint in the area to have clean metal. Then starting with the set above the body line, get one cut, shaped and at least tacked together and ground flush before moving to the next one. Rather than cut all of them and have a flimsy area with dozens of cuts to stabilize, leaving other depressions intact while you work will keep the panel tight and reduce distortion.
Tack weld slowly and cool often with a regulated air source with just few lbs. of air pressure.

That would be my plan.

[JSPONT]

I did not mean to just use a shrinking hammer, a cut has to be made down the center then a dolly and shrinking hammer to get it flat, then weld the cut. If you do not have access to the back side its a bad idea anyway, you will not be able to get corrosion protection on it.
And yes one at a time.

[Dave R]

I think I would go with cutting out the gills on this one and just patching it. It will put less heat into the area and probably quicker overall. Plus there would be the added bonus of having the grill sections intact which could be used by the next owner to change it back.

I wouldn't attempt any welding or cutting without removing the interior quarter panel and glass to protect them and provide access to the back of the weld for clean up and painting.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by JSPONT

If you do not have access to the back side its a bad idea anyway, you will not be able to get corrosion protection on it.

This probably should be in the bodywork section but if you ever can't get access to the back of your weld, there is a product called solar flux that can be applied which shields the back of your weld. It forms a strong protective layer that is chemically inert and will protect the back side of the welding bead basically forever. It's often used in pipe welding but would work perfectly on rocker panels and other tight spaces. No rust would ever form on the backside of the weld.

[i4abuygto]

Thanks guys - the interior and glass is out of the car. The backside accessibility is unknown to me but I will ask. I assume I can get at the back of the panel. I am confident with the cutting and welding of either a complete patch panel or the individual vertical repair. I have not done the shrinking hammer routine but I am sure it is a patient process to form the metal back. I will back the welds with a copper plate as a heat sink and spot weld in half sections to dissipate the heat. Is the consensus to do the individual gill repair or complete cut out and patch?
Thank you for your comments and advise.

[68azbird]

Originally Posted by Dave R

This probably should be in the bodywork section but if you ever can't get access to the back of your weld, there is a product called solar flux that can be applied which shields the back of your weld. It forms a strong protective layer that is chemically inert and will protect the back side of the welding bead basically forever. It's often used in pipe welding but would work perfectly on rocker panels and other tight spaces. No rust would ever form on the backside of the weld.

I use solar Flux and it does flake off. Would not trust to protect against corrosion.