[wlpsyp]

Guys,

Amanda and I are doing final detailed cleaning on the underside of the car today in preparation for painting. Here is our plan, please advise if I am doing a step wrong as I want this to hold up and not get caught with any "Oh Sh%t's"

1. Finish clean up to bare metal (all bare metal will be gone over with 50 grit paper to rough it up)
2. Wipe entire underside with water using 3M scourring pads
3. Wipe entire underside with Phosphric acid (let site about 10 minutes keeping area wet to help remove any microscopic rust)
4. Wipe down with water again using 3M pads
5. Wipe down with PPG DX30 wax/degreaser
6. Spray two coats of Omni AU MP176 Etch Primer (PPG Product) Mix a 3 to 1 ratio of MP176 primer to primer catalyst MP177
7. Spray one coat of PPG DP90 Mix 2 to 1 primer and catalyst
8. Seam seal all seams using 3M Ultra Pro seam sealer
9. Spray two coats of PPG DP90 (this is going to be the final topcoat as Amanda likes the color and the paint store said it would be fine as a top coat, true?)
10. Have a bunch of beers and give each other high five's (Beer is only for me )


How does this sound to everyone? We hope to finish clean up today and paint first thing tomorrow. I was going to originally spray Eastwood products but they will no longer ship HazMat to Alaska, so I am screwed there. Luckly I have a couple PPG paint stores here.

Thanks,

Bill

[Stuart]

I can't help with advice on the prep work, but I can confirm that DP90 all by itself as a topcoat is pretty durable. When I restored my '66 F**d pickup almost a decade ago, the frame was sprayed with DP90 and it still looks as good as the day it was painted. Of course, it doesn't see a lot of bad weather or winter use, but that's probably the case with your car as well.

[crkoester]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't know where Bill and Amanda LIVE, do you? That's the only kind of weather they HAVE!!!

I'm sure the car will be driven a LOT during the 72-hour-long Alaskan summer.


Chris

[Stuart]

I do know where they live; I've been following (and enjoying) the progress on their car for quite a while. And, living in Minnesota I know a thing or two about bad weather...on average, it's colder here in January than it is in Anchorage.

[Hammered]

The DP Stuart sprayed 10 years ago was a lot better than the DPLF that is now available. DP was great stuff, but I've had parts show some rust after more than 10 years of indoor storage. I would top coat it with a urethane. You've put so much work into the car so why cut corners hear? There are some "under hood" colors for late model cars that you might use.

John

[Glenp68]

I'd skip step 5 on pesonal expeience. It sounds like your clean enough and wouldn't want to contaminate the metal with anything that might prevent the etch from being able to react.

[61-63]

Leave out steps 4 and 6.

Regarding step 4 why would you want to put water on a fresh surface that all of the rust has just been killed on? If you are going to wipe it with water and then immediately wipe it with a degreaser/cleaner I suppose it won't hurt anything but I'd leave the water out of it.

On number 6 phosphoric and etch primer are a no no because they are incompatable and you will get lifting later. You can verify this with your PPG supplier. Just shoot it with DP90. Actually you etched it when you put the phosphoric on it so you don't need the etch aspect of the etch primer even if they were compatable.

[Hammered]

You need to be very careful about combining metal etchers and etch primer. I missed that the first time I looked at your post. I would use one or the other.

If you use the phosphoric acid, do small areas so you can neutralize and dry before moving on. I use a thoroughly damp rag to neatralize and then follow up with a dry lint free paper towel. Definitely use a good degreaser.

John

[wlpsyp]

Thanks for the info guys. I do not like the idea at all of adding water into the equation. Water and bare metal to me just does not make sense as it would start to flash rust right away I would think.

I really dont like the idea of spraying it down with phosphoric either as it says to keep the area wet for a minimum of 10 minutes to help remove microscopic rust then clean off with water. If we took out steps 2, 3, 4 and 5 would we be okay? My only concern would be that we did not get all the microscopic rust out, will that be a concern of spraying over some rust? Will the rust spread over time?

I will have to investigate Hammered's idea of urethane as I never thought of that and do not know if there will be any compatibility issues. I like the idea though, just dont know how much time I have between the DP primer and then spraying urethane as I do not want to have to "scuff" the paint if it is sitting to long and it is going to take a good day just to seam seal everything. I would like to be able to get this done in two days once step one is complete which will be today.

Thanks for the advice guys. I just dont want to screw up Amanda's car because I sprayed something wrong or in the wrong order.

Bill

[61-63]

I would definitely leave the phosphoric in, as that will convert any microscopic rust to iron oxide, and then clean it with a degreaser to get anything off that will keep the primer from sticking, and then immediately shoot it with epoxy.
As Stuart said you will then have a finish that will outlast you unless you go to the beach a lot.

Using the phosphoric is no big deal. Lay plastic drop cloth on your concrete floor, put old clothes on, put rubber or latex gloves on and goggles, and spray and wipe. I do it on just about everything metal I make or refinish. It kills the rust. It's good stuff.

[wlpsyp]

61-63, Thanks. So am I to understand now do not use any water at all. Use the phosphoric but NOT the Omni etch primer? The car is now in bare metal with some minor clean up in the corners to get some road grim off, but that will only take another couple hours to do. Everything has been gone over with 25-50 grit sanding disks, so the metal is really scratched up. So now that it is roughed up good I am understanding to do the following:

Spray and wipe off wax/degreaser
Spray and wipe off the phosphoric (just spray, let sit and wipe off, no water)
ensure the underside is completly dry
spray two coats of DP90
seam seal
spray one coat of DP90 over the seam sealer and entire underside again
Drink beer...

Thank you for your advise and that of everyone. I would just hate to screw up Amanda's car for my lack of knowledge on painting.

Bill

[61-63]

You got it.

You COULD wipe it down with the cleaner/degreaser again after the phosphoric and I usually do, but it is not required if you got it good and clean before the phosphoric.

That underside will be there from now on.

[Hammered]

The DPLF 90 has a 7 day wet-on-wet period although I wouldn't push it this far. I disagree on leaving the 90 on there by itself. I had numerous parts in long-term indoor, but unconditioned storage that were sand blasted and coated with the old DP40 and some top coated with Delstar/Delthane. The Delstar parts looked like new more that 15 years later but the DP'd parts had light rust poking through in a few places.

Do your phosphoric in roughly 2' x 2' sections and you'll be okay. Use a wet rag to neutralize, dry off with an old chamois or paper towels and then blow out the seams before going on to the next section.

John

[wlpsyp]

Guys, Thanks for the great advise and for "holding my hand" on this one. I now have my plan of attack. Just need to get the phosphoric acid then jump in.

John, I like the urethane idea. I take it I can get it at my local PPG dealer. Is there anything I need to look out for or know before I spray it besides the 7 day window on the DP primer and the safety aspect of wearing masks etc? I dont want to have to scuff up the primer as that is a pain in the rear end. I figure I can spray the degreaser/acid/degreaser/two coats of primer/seam seal/one coat of primer then the urethane in three days.

Again, thank you guys for the help and great advise. I know this will help others.

Bill

[61-63]

Post some pictures when you finish.

[Hammered]

Bill,

I like to lay the epoxy on fairly wet and usually do two coats unless I need to cut in around things, then I'll do two coats after cutting in. I would still use the DPLF 90 because any missed spots (like inside cavities) will still look presentable after urethane. Seam sealer can usually be top coated within a couple of hours so that shouldn't slow you up. Further, the DP can be top coated within a few hours (read the P sheet) if you only spray one coat (your third coat). I like the 401 hardner because it gives you a little more pot life and is supposed to adhere better, but you need to give it 30 minutes before you spray and it requires longer waits before it can be top coated.

Look at the chip books for late model cars and you'll see some semi-flat blacks called "underhood" colors. I have not used these so ask the rep about them. You typically can't flatten urethanes because they are designed to gloss out so well so these look like a good way to go IMO.

What I would do after the phosphoric:

Day 1, afternoon: shoot 2 coats DP90
Day 2, morning: seam seal (the epoxy will not be so tender at this point), scuff off any nibs or annoyances in DP
Day 2, afternoon: shoot 1 coat DP90 to cover sealer (sealer must be top coatable in this period of time)
Day 3, morning: shoot top coat
Day 3, afternon: drink beer and admire underneath of car.

John

[goatman-68]

I used Nason two part urethane with PPG flattener and had a hard time getting the flattener right. I ended up scuffing the whole bottom again and recoated with Eastwoods Chassis Black. It turned out great (about 60% gloss). I am not quite sure what their paint is though, it smells like acrylic enamel but they say it has epoxy in it also. How can there be epoxy in enamel or is it a hardener that they add??

[Hammered]

Unless you put hardner in the Eastwood paint, it's plain acrylic enamel or lacquer. PPG makes a 50% flat clear (DCU2060) that you can glossen up from there by adding regular clear. That's how I did it which is very expensive. I believe the alternative is to use the underhood paints that I mention in an earlier post. I would go urethane before spraying straight enamel or lacquer.

[455earlybird]

I lived in Alaska mostly Wasilla for 25 years and they do get nice weather in the summer not real hot just nice. I visted in 03 and it wsas in the 80's on the Kenia and in Anchorage. Fairbanks (went to elementry school there) can occasionaly get in the 90's in the summer but brutal in the winter. Make sure you share the beer with your help. I love Alaska!!!

[goatman-68]

Hammered -- This is off of Eastwoods site, It states it is a modified epoxy, whatever that means.

Not glossy, not dull, just right! Authentic 60-70% gloss looks great on suspension parts and frame. Available in Qts. (covers 40 sq. ft.) and Aerosol (covers 8 sq. ft.). Proper for all makes and models. Tough modified epoxy formulation resists chips, corrosion and temperatures up to 300&186; F; covers fast, up to four times the coverage of similar size Aerosol; average car uses just 3 to 5 cans for entire chassis! (Available in quarts, sprayable only) Works great over bare metal or Eastwood Rust Encapsulator. NOT RECOMMENDED for use over SINGLE STAGE SELF-ETCHING PRIMERS. Buy 3 or more and save