[MUSLCAH]

I use magnets sometimes to hold panels.... very strong little suckers.

[dataway]

I've got a stake of small niobium magnets, might give that a try ... I know you can't weld very close to them with TIG, distorts the arc a lot.

[242177P]

I've killed magnets with heat before (not welding mind you, just mad science). Something to consider is all.

[webfoot]

Originally Posted by MUSLCAH

I use magnets sometimes to hold panels.... very strong little suckers.

Same here, I use the round "rare earth" magnets, those suckers are strong!!

[bkmont]

Anybody ever use the DHC2000 Oxy/Acetylene to weld panels? I have one of these systems that I bought at a show for the "show price" a few years back.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWy3SPFGe4

[dataway]

Basically just an oxy/ac torch ... so yes you could use it. Years ago we usually just spot brazed panels on, then moved to MIG when that became common in shops. Like any Oxy/Ac welding it requires considerable skill to make thin gauge but welds. Wouldn't be my first choice for patch panels but for full panels where you are welding at the seams, folds etc. it would work. Basically that torch is no different than a proper small gas welding torch with the right tip on it ... which would also run on 4-5 psi ... but would probably cost more.

A lot of people don't realize that with the right rod and or flux, and the necessary skills you can weld just about anything with gas.

[bkmont]

Originally Posted by dataway

Basically just an oxy/ac torch ... so yes you could use it. Years ago we usually just spot brazed panels on, then moved to MIG when that became common in shops. Like any Oxy/Ac welding it requires considerable skill to make thin gauge but welds. Wouldn't be my first choice for patch panels but for full panels where you are welding at the seams, folds etc. it would work. Basically that torch is no different than a proper small gas welding torch with the right tip on it ... which would also run on 4-5 psi ... but would probably cost more.

A lot of people don't realize that with the right rod and or flux, and the necessary skills you can weld just about anything with gas.

I think I'm going to do some practicing with DHC2000 since I have it. Might give it a try on on my body patch panels if I can get the knack of it.
I've been using my old Lincoln 130 240v mig machine to weld in my floors, trunk pan and associated parts.

[dataway]

Couple of pictures of my home made clamps. In keeping my insistence on making things I could buy for $2

Combination of mild and stainless steel. Did a test weld with them, work nicely, and the thin sheet behaves much better when it's not laid down on cold 1/2 thick plate.

No pictures of it, but I used backstep, definitely reduces warpage.

Better to space the welds doing back step, then go back and fill in? Or do a 2" section, then move to the next section in line?

[dataway]

If warping wasn't an issue I'd weld everything like this.

About 25 amps on .034" sheet.

[4zpeed]

Originally Posted by dataway

If warping wasn't an issue I'd weld everything like this.

About 25 amps on .034" sheet.

Looks outstanding you seem to be very versatile, I've seen many of your posts thanks for sharing with myself and others.

I feel your pain with our nemesis, the distortion issue, here is a video that addresses it with a 'heat sink method'.

It is rather long (1:43) but in addition covers mig vs. tig, old vs. new, flange and but welds, flexibility, strength and more.

Absolutely the most honest, unbiased and thorough information that I have found, very useful, well worth watching (in its entirety).

There's a need to compromise when we do body work on our classics unfortunately,

Especially true when patching, considering replacement panel quality and the desire to keep as much from the factory as possible.

It should be strong but not too brittle, flexible but not too weak, with that, there's a desire for a technique that offers little to no filler.

There is a great explanation and demonstration, check it out in its entirety and let me know what you think.


Thanks
Frank

[dhutton]

Originally Posted by 4zpeed

Looks outstanding you seem to be very versatile, I've seen many of your posts thanks for sharing with myself and others.

I feel your pain with our nemesis, the distortion issue, here is a video that addresses it with a 'heat sink method'.

It is rather long (1:43) but in addition covers mig vs. tig, old vs. new, flange and but welds, flexibility, strength and more.

Absolutely the most honest, unbiased and thorough information that I have found, very useful, well worth watching (in its entirety).

There's a need to compromise when we do body work on our classics unfortunately,

Especially true when patching, considering replacement panel quality and the desire to keep as much from the factory as possible.

It should be strong but not too brittle, flexible but not too weak, with that, there's a desire for a technique that offers little to no filler.

There is a great explanation and demonstration, check it out in its entirety and let me know what you think.


Thanks
Frank

Don’t see a video?

Don

[4zpeed]

Originally Posted by dhutton

Don’t see a video?

Don

So sorry, guess it would be a good idea to post that, thanks Don !

Sorry Data ! I was busy burn... er um... cookin dinner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tdAgTCghUk


Frank

[dataway]

Some good tips in that video ... I'm still up in the air on my choice of welder ... I have two MIGs here, and a gas setup in addition to the TIG. Next I'm going to give the MIG a shot. Right now I'm not seeing the advantage of TIG if I have to step weld so much, might as well MIG. Also MIG would make my life WAY easier when it comes to being in a comfortable position to weld.

Back in the day we always gas brazed our panels, clamp them together, use a real small tip ... just spot weld with the brass.

Might try some SiCu MIG wire, always want to try that.

[4zpeed]

Originally Posted by dataway

Back in the day we always gas brazed our panels, clamp them together, use a real small tip ... just spot weld with the brass.

Might try some SiCu MIG wire, always want to try that.

Hmmm, 2 Migs, a Tig an a gas setup... I must say, I'm a bit jealous.

Honestly I don't see the advantage to a Tig as far as sheet metal work is concerned, especially as you mention, much of it will not be on a bench.

In the early 80's gas and coat hangers were the norm for me, that's all we had, therefore that's all we needed, heh.

They all have their place, and can be utilized very well in certain applications, but as Trev suggests, more than likely a Mig will be required at some point.

I also like his attitude allowing each individual to pick their own poison, for me, its the Mig an Torch, but far be it I'd throw a Tig out the door.

Controlling the heat and distortion is 1st and foremost, I'm use to that having much of my experience with a Torch.

Careful using SiB rod, or other dissimilar metals from steel, its more of a brazed joint and not a weld as I understand it and could be problematic.

Metal should be repaired with the same likes or a phenomenon called ghosting can accrue, a line at the repair will appear after a period of expansion and contraction.

Just my opinion, same with SiCu, although generally strong as steel would be best utilized as a plug filler or on a floor pan lap joint, not visible or on a butt joint.

I hope the vid helped, I thought it was very enlightening, for the beginner as well as someone seasoned in the art.


Frank

[dataway]

I got into SiCu when I was doing CrMo motorcycle frames. Flows super nice into crevices and makes a very attractive weld, also keeps the heat down so less problems with compromising the CrMo. In the 50's and 60's SiCu and a gas torch was the "the" way to assemble lightweight frames in the UK and it spread to the US. It also kind of "self gussets" it has such strong capillary attraction and flow that it makes those nice radiused inside welds all by itself. But of course ... that is WAY different than sheet metal.

I've done a TON of SiCu TIG on thin gauge structural steel ... but again, way different than sheet metal. I've got to look through my notes, for a couple of years I was TIG brazing 24 ga steel butt welds on very lightweight exhaust megaphones ... rolling it up into the cones and butt welding the long seam ... went to SiCu because steel rod would crack next to the seam after a few races ... the SiCu would spread so much that it would widen the area of stress and not crack (not to mention the lower heat kept the metal softer).

Luckily all the patches I have to do are very low stress areas, only fender corners, nothing more than a few inches long.

[dhutton]

It is my understanding that TIG welds are softer and planish more easily than MIG.

Don

[4zpeed]

Originally Posted by dhutton

It is my understanding that TIG welds are softer and planish more easily than MIG.

Don

That is true Don, but this can be somewhat offset by the type wire used, the thickness of the weld and the heat involved.

Again, there is no right or wrong way between these two methods, each can be used in a variety of ways to get the results we are seeking.

Planishing is just one of the processes used in welding to get the end result you are trying to achieve.

Think of it as driving a car and swaying from side to side, the distortion, caused by the heat, gap, length and thickness of the weld will make you sway.

The more you have to correct, the worse off you are, the less you have to correct the better off you are, you do not want to over (planish).

It is up to each individual to accomplish the desired effect they are trying to achieve, that may take several methods.


Frank

[MUSLCAH]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And That’s why Body fillah was invented.

[dataway]

Is anyone still using lead? I was thinking of attempting that for some of the small dings or seams.

[MUSLCAH]

Originally Posted by dataway

Is anyone still using lead? I was thinking of attempting that for some of the small dings or seams.

Yup....doing some lead work tomorrow .