[scott-462]

So the msd pro billet doesn't have a vacuum advance, but the ready to run version does. This is for my 70 lemans 464 street driven car. From everything ive read there is no downfall and only benefits from running vac advance with a street engine. I plan on using an msd 6al box I already have. From what ive read you can use an ignition box with a ready to run to gain the benefits of a 6al ect. The RTR doesn't have multiple spark discharge like a box offers from what ive seen, just a rev limiter built in. What are you street guys running? And I'm not wanting to run GM HEI....

[Sun Tuned]

After working on 2 last week of the RTR types(1 Chevy / 1 428 ford)...
There's not enough money that you could pay me to run that RTR steaming shixt pile of parts they call a distributor.

Here come the naysayers, but I'm telling you you would be far better off with a regular old well worked point distributor and use it to trigger your msd box.

Let the mud slinging commence.

[Tom Vaught]

I have run a "Potted" MSD Box for many years. REV LIMITER and Multi-Spark.
Have no reason to run another POS HEI deal like the one that was in my 78 Trans Am.
5 Module failures on the POS. Listen to Sun Tuned. He is an EXPERT on distributors and Ignition Systems and has been for many years.

I use a old pointed Pulse Wheel Transistor Ignition distributor from a 65 GTO to trigger the MSD. A Vertical Bar Pulse Wheel would work as well. HEI uses that system for triggering too.

Tom V.

[Squidward]

I run an HEI with module removed to trigger a 6AL on one car, and a regular HEI on the other. I might go with a pro billet 2 wire to use with my fi system for timing control. But for now, both systems use vac advance.

Is the original question more about using vac advance on the street, or 2 wire pro billet vs. Rtr?

[scott-462]

I guess the question would be is anyone using the RTR and msd box. I think just running the pro billet no vac advance would be a bad idea on the street, correct? I've been a member of this forum for years, and have owned my Pontiac for 13 years.. I'll never understand why most you guys prefer 45 year old outdated technology junk compared to something modern.. Hell, most of you passionately promote a quadrajet...

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

The RTR and MSD box their is some problem, I don't know what it is. Last night at the track 2 cars that are completely new came to me looking for advice. Random miss fires. Both had 3 wire MSD dizzy and 6 series boxes, advance locked out. The usual go to is the pickup polarity on new cars. These had three wires. I have no clue what is correct there, no one runs one (well) that I know of, unless you can bypass the module somehow? IDK.
Not sure why you would ask for advice and hate on the responses you get??? My guess is your young and know it all, it will just get harder as you get older and ....er.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

"Oh Man,---that sounds like a ready to run distributor that does not use a box
simply hooks to a coil and that is it----is that what you have?

I have never heard anything good about those but out of curiosity I had to try one because of the simplicity---
it never left the dyno----the thing had all kinds of issues and everything was new
I switched the engine to a 6AL box and standard MSD distributor and it was instantly fixed"

Brad
www.race-1.com

[64speed]

I use the summit ready to run with a 6AL box. A lot cheaper and have no problem with it. I guarantee you that distributor is made by MSD but they wont admit it. It has vacuum advance.

[Formulajones]

Scott,
MSD does offer a Pontiac distributor with a vacuum advance that is made to run with any of the MSD boxes. That's what my father runs on his 571, and used it on his previous 455 for years.

Also, the MSD's that I've had without the vacuum advance, can be retrofitted with a vacuum can that MSD sells for about $20-$25. They were all made to accept the vacuum advance, they just weren't equipped.

Don't know if that has changed lately though, it's been 3-4 years since I've bought another one. But I'd definitely run a vacuum advance. There is literally no downside to having one what so ever.

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by scott-462

I'll never understand why most you guys prefer 45 year old outdated technology junk compared to something modern.. Hell, most of you passionately promote a quadrajet...

Just because I do not use Q-Jet carbs on my engines is no reason not to acknowledge that they are a fine carburetor design. Same deal with a stock points type ignition system with vacuum advance. It you deliver the spark energy to the cylinder at the right time, no need for 20 bells and whistles.

If I run a MSD system because it might save my engine if I have a part failure, vs no rpm
protect mode, how is that wrong? I was a EFI Calibrator for my company for 5 years.
That means that we were doing stuff years ahead of Holley/Fast/Motec, etc.
In simple terms, you do stuff for a reason. If you don't have a need for the stuff on your engine, why put it on the vehicle? Just wasting money, unless the government mandates that it be installed. Most young people want the latest and "greatest?" new toy, whether it is better vs the Old Q-Jet or not.

Old/Wise People most of the time figure out what they really need, FIRST.

Just Saying.

Tom V.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by scott-462

. I'll never understand why most you guys prefer 45 year old outdated technology junk compared to something modern.. Hell, most of you passionately promote a quadrajet...

I can give you several reasons why Scott. I for one run 4 different cars with points distributors. 2 of them are our daily drivers.

For one, we love the simplicity and rock solid dependability. They are no fuss spark providers that are easily diagnosed road side if need be.

Another is because I simply don't have to touch the things. I check the dwell once a year and rarely do I ever have to adjust it. Not to mention I'll run a set of points for 10+ years without any ill affects. They are just stupid simple and we like the KISS principle.

Another is because the correct 480 distributor for our 69 Z/28 brings a cool $1500 or more for a correct dated unit, (I've even seen them change hands for more) so I'm not just going to shelf that sucker, it's parts like these that make the car correct, and make or break a correct restoration, so it's getting used on the car.

Now there are cars that I run an MSD setup on (my chevelle is one) but I needed a 2 step, rev limiter, and timing retard, so the digital setup made sense.

On the cars we drive a lot, and even race a lot (in PS form) the points distributors make sense for us (and are needed per rules in that class). They provide reliable spark and work, even at 7,000 rpm on the Z. I don't even have any interest in a conversion kit (pertronix, accel etc...) because the points serve us fine. Actually I can tell horror stories of pertronix units that I've had years back. I just don't go there anymore.

[Ozzmann]

After two module fails on my RTR, I removed the module and connected correct wires to the pick up so I could run a box instead, haven't had a problem since. Best of both worlds box and vac advance.

[Sun Tuned]

The big problem i have with that RTR thing is is you have to disassemble the whole damn thing to get down to the module just to replace it. This means the whole thing has to come out of the car and you arent going to do it with a pair of needlenose pliers and two screwdrivers.

And that 428 Ford I did, you can add a gear puller and a small arbor press to reinstall the gear back on. You arent going to do that on the side of the road.

Brand new dont mean good!

And in all seriousness, lets talk turkey a second. Bushing distributors when new and in proper order run off of .001 shaft to bushing side clearance. I know the MSD stuff has a ball bearing in the top. So WHEN not IF the module goes out in that thing, and noone can say when that will happen its obviously not going to be at an opportune time. It never is. I dont know what MSD charges to replace that deal if its not under warranty but ill bet it eats 100.00 at least,
Im not even sure they will sell you just the module they may require it to be sent in... T I M E and MONEY.

Thing is the OEM engineers did a far better job of designing their ignition systems to be serviced than SOME of this aftermarket stuff. MSD is nothing more than a knockoff of a FORD DURASPARK distributor from 1975, and you can bet that was actually designed in 1971 im told. I liked the old probillet, but this RTR in my opinion is not designed well. But then there is only so much you can do with a distributor anyhow. Especially these GM HEI clones. you get to cloning too closely and GM PATENT attorneys will be riding down tail dragging your ass for patent infringement. So they change the stuff up 10-15% and there just any room left to do that except in the grease well, bushing, and weight retention area. When they get done it looks the part it just dont work quite right. But Its new and all.

Sometimes there really isnt an impending need to reinvent the wheel every 2 years.

The old probillet Pontiac deal was not like the chevy version where if you wanted to add a vac advance all you had to do was remove the plastic plug and pick out a advance unit and carry on. The early Pontiac stuff MSD made was not changeable, they may have changed that lately I do not know. Been bout 10 years since I worked on one, so that may have changed. Anyone know for sure?

I would run a vac advance in 98% of any application I could from street to race. But then the proper vac advance is critical to success in that area anyhow.

[GOAT WHORE]

I've had a RTR and 6-AL box in my street car for 20,000 miles now with no issues what so ever.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Originally Posted by GOAT WHORE

I've had a RTR and 6-AL box in my street car for 20,000 miles now with no issues what so ever.

Thru or without the module? For reference when advising others, when I encounter a RTR unit.
Thanks.

[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by STEELCITYFIREBIRD

Thru or without the module? For reference when advising others, when I encounter a RTR unit.
Thanks.

Not sure what you mean by this? I run the Ready to Run distributor and 6-AL box.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

You can eliminate the module and just use the pickup coil in the distributor, only have 2 wires coming out, ala post #12, or use the module and have 3 wires used for connection. Hope that made sense!

[64speed]

I'm telling you the summit ready to run is a good piece at half the price with vacuum advance.

[Cliff R]

I've had stock distributors in every older car I've owned, and in several GM trucks and a 1979 K-5 Blazer and never had the first issue with any of them.

With my last 455 we swapped out my stock HEI for an MSD Pro Billet right on the dyno and there is NOTHING to gain anyplace in power production.

The stock HEI in my engine I'm using now has been in service in 4 different engines now dating back to the mid 1980's and never had a single problem with it anyplace. It has a used factory 990 module in it, stock pick-up and coil.

Points distributors are good units, and you can use a uni-set in them and adjust the dewell, then remove that set and put it in the glovebox, then install a second one and start driving. If you have a problem with the points or condenser you are back on the road in minutes.

With MSD's or any other aftermarket set-up when they give-up you are walking, unless you buy two of them and have a spare in the car someplace.

I favor the stock distributors simply for the reliability factor, and ease of swapping out parts if something takes a dump and leaves you on the side of the road......FWIW......Cliff

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I'm telling you the summit ready to run is a good piece at half the price with vacuum advance.

How many miles do you actually have on your Ready to Run Summit Piece?
500 miles? 1000 miles? Average person with a normal Driver (Ford Chebby) to get to work does between 10,000 and 15,000 miles in a year. Formulajones does 10 years on a set of points. Maybe not a lot of miles but no messing with it either on the side of the road, for 10 years. KISS works (Keep It Simple, Sir).

Tom V.

Same deal with a Holley 2300 2 BBL Carb. Don't need Joe's Carb shop "Track Special Calibration" when the one the Holley Engineers designed, (have a little background here), worked just fine on vehicle models with 100,000 of miles on them. Everyone has to mess with stuff because they (as Racers) know more than the Guy who actually designed the piece does. (He does the job for a living).
I have put hundreds of carbs back to stock Holley calibrations and the customers were always happy at the end of the day. If a 50 year old calibration was done well, why do you think you need to have the latest trick of the week (for less hp typically).