[RAIVJUDGE]

When during the 1970 production run did Pontiac change from black centers to red lucite centers on the Rally II center caps?

[RAIVJUDGE]

When during the 1970 production run did Pontiac change from black centers to red lucite centers on the Rally II center caps?

[RAIVJUDGE]

What no replys? I know it was January or February of 1970. My Judge's build date is 01B. The car will be completed for next years nationals in St Louis and entered in the concourse restored class. I guess the better question is do they deduct points for the center caps for 1970 cars or does it matter?
Thanks

[darren]

when they judged my 70 judge convert at the GTOAA nats in 2001 I was told any car built after march had to have red centers I had black centers and lost a point

[RAIVJUDGE]

Thanks Darren I appreciate the information

[Bucksnort]

Reseaching posts on this topic awhile back I found one from OPH ( dated March 18 2002) indicating red would be correct for late November on, when they changed from JL to JT coded wheels. I also have 01B build date and was not sure what was correct.

[RAIVJUDGE]

My car came with JT wheels also and is indicated on the build sheet so I guess I need red center caps now. This info coincides with what another knowledgeable GTO person stated to me . If you have JT wheels yo get red centers. Thanks

[gtoric]

Not sure how much creedence to put into the JL/JT code wheels and the corresponding color of the center cap. I have a manifest from the Pontiac plant dated 01/16 that reads JT road wheels. I have another manifest from the Pontiac plant dated 05/11 that reads JL road wheels. So there was a good amount of overlap, at least in the Pontiac plant. I'm of the opinion that the center cap medallions colors were changed sometime in the first half of the model year as the supplies of the black caps ran out. This would be at a different point for each assembly plant. Chances are, if your car was equipped with JT wheels and assembled after February of '70, it had red center caps. there is a gray area during the first few months of 1970 where a car could have received either red or black caps. As late as April? Probably red. I think that the GTOAA judges are willing to accept either color in the "gray area" time frame.

[kyle_blake]

i need black center caps and have red ones to trade if anyone is interested.

['ol Pinion head]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gtoric:
Not sure how much creedence to put into the JL/JT code wheels and the corresponding color of the center cap. I have a manifest from the Pontiac plant dated 01/16 that reads JT road wheels. I have another manifest from the Pontiac plant dated 05/11 that reads JL road wheels. So there was a good amount of overlap, at least in the Pontiac plant. I'm of the opinion that the center cap medallions colors were changed sometime in the first half of the model year as the supplies of the black caps ran out. This would be at a different point for each assembly plant. Chances are, if your car was equipped with JT wheels and assembled after February of '70, it had red center caps. there is a gray area during the first few months of 1970 where a car could have received either red or black caps. As late as April? Probably red. I think that the GTOAA judges are willing to accept either color in the "gray area" time frame. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ric ,
Can def agree there is some gray area as to when the black caps went to red. I can only respond that the vast majority of original ‘70’s (built in the Winter-Spring time frame) I have examined had red centercaps or the faded out remainder of red center caps) on their corresponding date matching JT coded rally II’s. Been trying to nail down the exct date of this occurence for many years, in doing so the best I've been able to do is speak w/ original owners who still have their original cars or took good pics of it when showroom new. The first time I encountered this exact dilemma was nearly 16 years ago, & in his concours resto, the owner went with black caps, only because he preferered the look of them on his white ’70 Judge.

'70-71 rally II wheel codes in respect to what the buildsheet states…
Unfortunately, one cannot give much validity to the two letter wheel code given on buildsheets of certain time ranges of ’70 & ’71 Pontiac A-bodys, esp when one is using this info to state which actual code of rally II’s came on the car. The info inputted into the computer at each assembly plant that kicked out the buildsheet, often lagged well behind practice of actual production. From nearly two decades of hardcore research & parts chasing, my results have shown that JL coded rally II wheel production ended on Nov 24th, 1969. Many JL rally II wheels dated 11/24/69 were not used on ’70 Pontiac A-bodys, but actually shuttled to GM parts & sold later over the counter. Research has shown, the first JT code 14x6 rally II wheels were stamped on 11/25/69 & were shipped to each of the plants for use on all ’70 Pontiac A-bodys equipped with rally II wheels. Any use of the JL wheel code on later ’70 buildsheets was only due to that plant’s computer not having its input data updated.

Similar incorrect buildsheet data problems exist in respect to very early ’71 TransAm production (2 dates of KN coded 15x7 rally II wheels were usedon these cars, when so optioned, not the noted JW code wheels). Another incorrect buildsheet wheel code scenario raises its head in mid-late ’71 Pontiac A-body production when the JT wheel was no longer used, but all ’71 14x6 rally II wheel useage used the KU coded 14x6 rally II. Hope this helps explain my earliar post.

[gtoric]

ol'Pinion head, I agree with your conclusions. The point I was trying to make is that I don't believe that the color of the center caps was directly correlated to the wheel code.
When you say production of JL-coded wheels ended on 11/24/69, do you mean production at Motor Wheel? How much inventory was in the pipeline at that time? Without just-in-time supply line practices, how long did it take PMD to run out the supply of JLs? What is the earliest assembly date of an A-body originally equpped with JTs that you have been able to identify? Not questioning your research, just trying to get a better handle on the timing of this changeover at the assembly plants. All of the limited documentation that I have indicates that the change occurred sometime after the first of Jan, 1970. Do you agree with that rough timeframe estimate?
Could that 05/11 manifest be explained by something as innocent as a rogue pallet of JLs that were used up at that time? Like you say, the IBM inventory systems of the time were not a thing of beauty compared to today's inventory management programs.

[gto19]

i need a set of JL rally wheels .i will pay top dollar .my car was built 10-c 1969 and its a 1970 gto judge .i guess the wheels i need would have to have date codes near early oct 1969

eric hinz
gto19@netzero.net