[yellow1098]

As I mentioned in another thread. I’m looking to go with a Holley Terminator x on my 461 stroker and the intake options are pretty limited. One of the biggest issues is fitment with my 77 TA shaker hood. I am getting my heads from Butler and I really wanna make sure when I order them I get my intake port matched. The only intakes they offer with EFI bungs are Edlebrocks. The super Victor which I’m not sure would fit and the Torker 2 which looks much lower.

My questions are..... number one will the super Victor fit with my shaker? And second....What would be the performance difference be between the Torker2 and the super Victor?

I have also found some lower speedmaster efi intakes so not sure how those would perform and I can’t find any other....If you guys know any other option please let me know.

Any info about fitment and performance differences on these intakes would be appreciated as always!

[ta man]

How much HP is your engine ?

[yellow1098]

Well I’m shooting for around 650hp.....the heads will be 340cfm

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Dry intakes are a very different animal than wet intakes.... as I minimally understand. You may want to search the subject in general. I recall a modern ram jet style intake being touted a while back for the Pontiac V8??

[Steve C.]

Agree, you may want to search the subject in general. Here is a start, and keep in mind in the research/reading you will will be limited in resources /design of the intake.....

https://www.cartechbooks.com/techtip...mpactmanifolds


In Multi-Port Injection, only air flows through the throttle body with the fuel injectors in the intake manifold near the intake ports. It is my understanding the intake manifold design has less impact with this type than the the Throttle Body Injection. This a bit of a generic response. That said I personally would go with the specific intake that will allow your goal to fit a shaker hood.


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[Scott65]

What you may wanna do is find out what will be the cross section dimension of your 340cfm head at the intake flange. Mine were done by SD Performance, 330cfm, and I went to a Northwind from a T2 because I wasn't comfortable with the amount of material for sealing the top of the port with the T2(the NON Supervictor edelbrock efi manifold, but without the bungs for the injectors) If your OK with the possibility of needing some weld material potentially, then just pick, and then make it work.
When I changed to mpfi, I went with the Supervictor. I don't have any issues with it as far as soggy low end power, but I also don't have any hood clearance limitations. (Within reason)
Just throwing this out there as it could be an issue, depending on your port size.

[Steve C.]

Excellent point regarding the port match. Note here the intake had to be welded in order to port match with the tall intake ports on the cylinder heads.

"Because of limited hood clearance, the Torker II intake was the only available choice. Crocie discovered the manifold ports were too short for the CNC ports in the heads and required TIG-welding raised port tops in the intake, which then needed to be machined flat and port-matched."


https://www.hotrod.com/articles/ccrp...ImageId=357625

Edit: Information on the heads in use for the above.

When the heads came back from a session in SD Performance’s CNC machine, the ports flowed 345 cfm at 0.600-inch valve lift. The valve sizes are 2.25/1.71 inches and are controlled by a set of Comp 996 dual springs.

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[yellow1098]

So the torker 2 probably wouldn’t be the best choice if it has to be worked over that much.....I would think Butler should have these answers.....figured someone would have an answer if the Victor fits....my current northwind does ...is that about the same height? I will definitely read up on that topic also

[Steve C.]

Here is a thread attached regarding cutting down a Victor intake, note the comment that his Torker II intake would not work with his ported heads because of sealing issues. That said, what he was using for cylinder heads is mentioned but no dimensions for the intake port height is stated. The as cast Victor intake has more material above for sealing. What you need to know is how tall are your ports and what intake will work. Note Skip's comment in post #11

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ghlight=Bandit

DO NOTE, my comments within that thread regarding horsepower losses with a cut down Victor intake was based on 'wet flow' using a carburetor and should not reflect use with a throttle body and fuel injection. Also I cut down my Victor for extra hood clearance, but my hood scoop is molded to my fiberglass hood. No 'shaker scoop' in use.

Now regarding the Northwind intake. According to Spotts Performance website he states the intake is approx 1.25" lower then a Victor intake. Also stated on the site, the standard design is 4150 Holley style Northwind comes with a RA IV port match machined into the intake. How much material above for sealing is not stated.

Years ago in Pontiac Enthusiast magazine they did a promotion article for the Northwind intake, within it the comment was made it offers 1-1/4-inches more hood clearance. They go on and state the height difference is especially noticeable when the Northwind is compared to another aftermarket intake, not stated but it is pictured alongside a Victor intake.

Nothing 'official' but my personal notes have it the Northwind intake is about 1-1/8-inches taller than a Torker II intake.


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[Scott65]

Here is a thread detailing how you could use a Northwind if it works as far as hood clearance.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=819425

[Steve C.]

Very nice, good information. It looks like he is using the same Holley fuel injection system I used.

https://www.holley.com/brands/holley...retrofit_kits/

I used a old Victor intake I had on hand. We had injector bungs done to it as Mark did on that Northwind intake, along with the fuel rails mounted. It was all custom by a company in San Antonio.


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[Scott65]

Yes Steve, the whole project looked nice on that one. I don't remember whether he kept it updated to completion. Gonna go back and look, I just remembered it had pertinent info to this discussion.

[Skip Fix]

My 'raised port Torker II" based on wt/mph is supporting 550-575 HP with an 850 DP depending on the run and the calculator. Getting above 2.3" port you need to add weld at the top, not that big a deal. Did mine before Crocie did that motor. The Tomahawk also needs weld added up top to seal and has flats for injectors to be machined.

[Steve C.]

On the Tomahawk intake I've used the SCE 128103 intake gasket. Despite what the catalog states that gasket has a port opening that is about 2.320" tall and when used to port match the Tomahawk intake to about 2.300" it leaves only about 0.125" above for sealing without welding.


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[jonathonar89]

Hey 1098,

This is Jon (F-Body International on the Pro-Touring forum). I know you posted this over there but I hope the other Pontiac guys on this thread/forum helped answer your question.

As I was telling you on that forum, I would not think too hard about which manifold makes the most horsepower because we're talking about dry-air manifolds in your situation. You should think about hood clearance in your situation. MPFI manifolds are less sensitive to this stuff because is being injected right behind the valve port at that point (not mixing throughout the intake).

Personally, I would stick with the low-profile Torker 2 or Speedmaster (Tomahawk) MPFI intake. For budget purposes, the Speedmaster is probably best for most people. My favorite Pontiac intake for efi, however, would probably be the Torker 2 version because the injector bungs on that manifold are actually tilted to spray in the port rather than shooting towards the floor as found in most intakes.

Some pictures in this article will show you what I'm talking about...
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hppp...-buyers-guide/

[yellow1098]

Man you guys have awesome info on here......Jon I love Protouring....but it just doesn’t compare to the answers and direct feedback you get on here....not to mention way faster responses.........Soooooo I will read through those posts and articles you guys sent.... and I’m gathering as far as power differences go the port match is much more important especially with the MPFI?

[Scott65]

My point wasn't the port match so much as port material on certain intakes. One of the articles linked earlier i believe has pictures, but its been a while since I looked at it. You may have to weld more material on the top side of the manifold ports to get a good seal on anything other than the Northwind, or Victor. The thread i linked to earlier involved using a Northwind with a shaker.

[jonathonar89]

Originally Posted by yellow1098

Man you guys have awesome info on here......Jon I love Protouring....but it just doesn’t compare to the answers and direct feedback you get on here....not to mention way faster responses.........Soooooo I will read through those posts and articles you guys sent.... and I’m gathering as far as power differences go the port match is much more important especially with the MPFI?

Yes, getting the port match is important but cross-sectional area needs to opened up wherever it's the smallest. In porting terms, they say the "choke-point".

GM has expanded up this even further with their new LT engine series. Fuel suspension and port velocity is not as important for making power with the new engines because direct injection is now the new method of fuel delivery. Port size is massive now. I know Pontiac and new GM is different but it's crazy to think stock new GM heads flow as much or more as heavily ported aluminum heads we buy/build for our engines.

[Steve C.]

To mirrior that point. Typically air flow velocity is greater with no fuel droplets involved. At least that's my understanding. But is there less importance for a smooth transition between manifold and intake ports with dry air flow involving fuel injection ? I personally I would want to clean the edges up and make sure that the parts are all fitting nicely together without creating any unnecessary turbulence or restrictions to the airflow.

Now here is another tid bit that is interesting....

"The effect of air flow on the spray behavior was not significant for the intake ports examined in this study except for a slight spray acceleration. It was also found that the injector must be matched well with the intake port design. A careful selection of intake port geometry and injector can reduce the fuel wall wetting markedly."

https://www.sae.org/publications/tec...ontent/960115/


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[Steve C.]

It was stated yellow1098 was interested in the Butler 340 CFM Edelbrock Round Port cylinder heads. I looked on the Butler website and those heads require a Victor or Northwing Intake. That intake gasket used on those heads are 1.20" wide X 2.560" tall.

Either intake manifold will not be a simple bolt-on application with those cylinder heads and will require serious modification (port matching) to the port exit opening to make them taller.


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