#1  
Old 05-27-2024, 08:21 AM
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Default Beautiful 1970 Pontiac Firebird for sale.

Not mine, but in my area. Beautiful 1970 Pontiac Firebird Formula. $79k Canadian. that's like $57K U.S.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...type=top_picks

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Old 05-27-2024, 11:27 AM
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That IS a good looking car.

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Old 05-27-2024, 11:50 AM
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Nice RA3 stick car, with at least a few good options, PS,,PB, gauges, and some OK additions like the spoiler and wheels.

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Old 05-27-2024, 12:52 PM
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pretty

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  #5  
Old 05-27-2024, 03:03 PM
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nice looking car, really close to me - and curiously, I've never seen this one.

What's the consensus on the block(?);

I ask, because it Looks like the front face was machined down and stamped 'WS' to me;
Unless I'm mistaken, that's kind of a cheaters way of making it numbers isn't it?

The description states "meticulous restoration", but I'd wager anyone here worth their salt could surely find at least a small handful of issues/wrong parts on it... but it presents well.

Are cars like this really $80k(cnd) cars?
(For argument's sake, lets call it a $60k(usd) car).

I find it interesting that it's got the tiny fuel pump, 73+ trim rings, 67-69 center caps, and an aftermarket exhaust with the mufflers under the floor (which means if it stops being a 4x4 it will scrape the mufflers on the ground);
These would have all been REALLY easy things to do right if you're doing a meticulous restoration.

It does look great.

If anyone gets wind of this selling, can you please share what it sells for?

If this has documentation, this is one of two local 70 RAIII/4spd Formulas that are (or were at some point) local to me;
I looked at a red (with black vinyl roof) over black deluxe interior, four speed car some years back - that was an absolutely original, and numbers correct car.
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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #6  
Old 05-27-2024, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
nice looking car, really close to me - and curiously, I've never seen this one.

What's the consensus on the block(?);

I ask, because it Looks like the front face was machined down and stamped 'WS' to me;
Unless I'm mistaken, that's kind of a cheaters way of making it numbers isn't it?

The description states "meticulous restoration", but I'd wager anyone here worth their salt could surely find at least a small handful of issues/wrong parts on it... but it presents well.

Are cars like this really $80k(cnd) cars?
(For argument's sake, lets call it a $60k(usd) car).

I find it interesting that it's got the tiny fuel pump, 73+ trim rings, 67-69 center caps, and an aftermarket exhaust with the mufflers under the floor (which means if it stops being a 4x4 it will scrape the mufflers on the ground);
These would have all been REALLY easy things to do right if you're doing a meticulous restoration.

It does look great.

If anyone gets wind of this selling, can you please share what it sells for?

If this has documentation, this is one of two local 70 RAIII/4spd Formulas that are (or were at some point) local to me;
I looked at a red (with black vinyl roof) over black deluxe interior, four speed car some years back - that was an absolutely original, and numbers correct car.

You didn't even call out the non-chrome air cleaner lid. It may be an Original Pontiac 400 Engine, but is it "The" original Pontiac 400 engine?

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  #7  
Old 05-27-2024, 04:59 PM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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there's a lot I didn't call out.

My hunch is that this car was bought without an engine, and the aircleaner is a repop - I believe they all come with a black lid.
I only pointed out a few items that I was confident the owner purchased for the restoration, and in doing so, bought wrong parts, or parts which maybe would not be ideal on a high dollar car.

In my opinion (and I am not professing to know-all) a top dollar car should be done right, in every detail which is feasable.
I have been (probably correctly) called out in the past for being nit-picky on cars which people have spent good coin on doing;
I really don't want to seem like a keyboard-jockey picking apart someone's car - rather, I would hope that if someone is putting in the time and money I might be of assistance in ironing out the details via information I have tried compiling here...

I think that if it had the right stance, exhaust, and small stuff - with no add-on (or obviously incorrect) parts, it would present it self as a whole different car.

That Formula I linked the other day on Hemmings is a great quick comparison:



Both cars look great;
Both are sitting a little high;
Neither car is perfect, but in my mind one just seems to present itself better.

Am I being too picky?
(I really hope not)
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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #8  
Old 05-27-2024, 08:29 PM
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Those rear springs should be pitched in the bin - the 4x4 look is an epidemic from what I have seen out there. Pretty car though.

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  #9  
Old 05-28-2024, 12:19 PM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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I'm going to repeat myself, incase it was missed.

Question:

What is the consensus on that block stamp?

I am asking because to me, it looks fishy, and would bring into question the legitimacy of any partial vin stamp (if present).

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #10  
Old 05-28-2024, 12:49 PM
SD455DJ SD455DJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
I'm going to repeat myself, incase it was missed.

Question:

What is the consensus on that block stamp?

I am asking because to me, it looks fishy, and would bring into question the legitimacy of any partial vin stamp (if present).
Looks wrong enough to make me suspicious (letters too far apart) and no EUN. Where is the PHS? It is not a restoration, but rather, a repaint, fluff, and cleaning.

Dennis

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Old 05-28-2024, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
I'm going to repeat myself, incase it was missed.

Question:

What is the consensus on that block stamp?

I am asking because to me, it looks fishy, and would bring into question the legitimacy of any partial vin stamp (if present).
Faked/restamped.
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Old 05-28-2024, 02:46 PM
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thank you for taking a moment to reply.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #13  
Old 06-07-2024, 02:48 PM
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70FormulaCA 70FormulaCA is offline
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I just read this post. You guys make some good points.

I messaged the seller for the PHS and picture of the trim tag.

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70 Formula 400 Auto non-A/C

Wanted: 1972 Formula HO - leads very much appreciated.
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Old 06-07-2024, 10:23 PM
Ramairnacho Ramairnacho is offline
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Thumbs up Block stamp

I got the phs docs and took.pic of a ws for sale. Im no expert but looks same to me. Price seems fair if all legit. 1 sold for 78k about 1 year ago on TV auction site. About 3 years ago I showed a fellow Facebook member my yz stamp and casting 914 on back of passanger side block and he told me mine is a restamp because it wasn't as clean as his and I.didnt have a ground out 4 and a 5 stamped in place. I think this is a nice real deal ra3. Components break over the years or wear down from use and get replaced. It's normal to see that. I've also seen a 1970 ta restored with alot of repop stuff and sold for 100k plus. This car is rare no doubt and looks nice.
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  #15  
Old 06-08-2024, 06:44 AM
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One thing about the YZ having a ground out 4 and stamped 5, I would like to see an example of that.
I haven't come across any for YZ.
WS are many examples.
But also, I haven't found a TA/Formula with that.
Mostly Judges and GTO?
I would like to see examples if one has any.


Your 1st pic you can see the broach marks. (good)
The one this post is about looks like it was smoothed. (Not good)




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Old 06-11-2024, 09:29 PM
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I've gotten a copy of the PHS but so far no pictures of the trim tag or partial VIN.

Car was originally Verdoro Green.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 70FormulaCA View Post
I just read this post. You guys make some good points.

I messaged the seller for the PHS and picture of the trim tag.

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70 Formula 400 Auto non-A/C

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