[Pontiacdaver]

A good friend of mine sent this to me after we talked about the car:

Dave - sent your pic of the red Can Am to Ben Harrison (Pontiac Product Planning Manager from '64-mid-80's). Here is his reply: Scott,

As the guy who was given total responsibility to make this car happen at Pontiac Motor by Pontiac's General Manager Alex Mair, I can assure you that the car you pictured is NOT an official Pontiac Motor Division preproduction prototype.

Ben

He followed it up with this:

Dave- I also heard back from John Schinella on the red Can Am - he backs Ben up & says that the red one was not done at Pontiac. If the seller is original owner & claims it was bought new this way, the only remaining explanation is that it's a dealer job... Looks cool, but I'd say it's a LeMans Sport Coupe done up in CA livery...

Hard to argue it is a real Can Am.

[Alvin]

Thanks for the follow-up and "the rest of the story" info.

As you know, Alex Mair is THE MAN mentioned in Wangers' memoir that the pilot car was presented. He was “the decider” if it was to move forward and become a Pontiac offering or not.

Jim wrote:

“The biggest surprise was that Alex Mair actually liked the car – everything but the name and color ("The Judge" in Carousel Red) that is.”

[BluMax]

Thanks for the info Alvin. I have no skin in this either - just thought I'd throw in what I knew about this car & the owner. Has the "red" Can Am ever been located?

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by BluMax

Thanks for the info Alvin. I have no skin in this either - just thought I'd throw in what I knew about this car & the owner. Has the "red" Can Am ever been located?

Not to my knowledge. But who knows what story some salesman told to an original "dealer" car purchaser. Obviously this photo of the red car has been floating around for yrs. Jim w PHS would have verified "special" units originally produced or still existent - one would think.

However there was a Carousel Red (orange) Can Am w white interior driving around Bryan/College Station TX with all the factory stripes, equipment etc. back in the '80s.
It was jacked up with 50 series tires and Crager SS wheels, other than that it looked stock from the outside/inside - except in Orange exterior. WAG - Probably just a repainted CA w new stripe kit - as those were still dealer available back then IIRC.

At the time I liked the look.

[Pontiacdaver]

And personally, I like the eBay car. It is going up into rough Can Am pricing the last time I looked, $4550 I think, and the reserve still hadn't been met.

[BluMax]

I have heard stories over the years that some dealers did gather the parts to make a complete car, but the eBay car was painted & outfitted exactly as the one pictured. My girlfriend had a Can Am that she purchased in '83. We were vacationing down in the Bradenton area when we spotted the red Can Am at the Holiday Inn on Longboat Key, FL. Tim's girlfriend worked there & we spent some time with them. If anything, he may be longest surviving original owner of this car. Lastly, car salesmen always tell the truth - Right? In conclusion, if this was my car & thought it might be the "red" Can Am, a valid PHS report could send this auction spinning with Can Am collectors. We will see. I need to participate here more as there appears numerous Pontiac lovers/experts on this site - Thanks.

[The Boss]

I thought the reason for the short production run was the machine that made the spoilers broke. If that's the case, how could a dealer make/fake one out of OTC parts?

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by BluMax

I have heard stories over the years that some dealers did gather the parts to make a complete car, but the eBay car was painted & outfitted exactly as the one pictured. My girlfriend had a Can Am that she purchased in '83. We were vacationing down in the Bradenton area when we spotted the red Can Am at the Holiday Inn on Longboat Key, FL. Tim's girlfriend worked there & we spent some time with them. If anything, he may be longest surviving original owner of this car. Lastly, car salesmen always tell the truth - Right? In conclusion, if this was my car & thought it might be the "red" Can Am, a valid PHS report could send this auction spinning with Can Am collectors. We will see. I need to participate here more as there appears numerous Pontiac lovers/experts on this site - Thanks.

Cool. In case you haven't visited, based on your Avatar image, here's the link to the Late Model GTO, G8 etc. sections http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...play.php?f=532

PY would greatly appreciate your contributions there also...and let your friends know about it.

Edit: here's 1 of the forum sections http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...play.php?f=503

[BluMax]

Thanks Alvin for the links. Yes, that is a 2006 Holden Monaro (GTO) that I picked up new in 2007. My roots go back to a 1971 Trans Am that I purchased in 1977 & 1969 GTO RAIV that I picked up in 1986. I sold both of them in 2006 due to a divorce. Six month later, I was back in like the mob when I took notice on the new "GTO". It's a great for what it is, but I do understand the controversy with the original GTO people. I have none of that as I lived in both worlds. One day soon, I want to buy another 2nd gen. Trans Am.

[Alvin]

Excellent. So you'll understand both sides and emotions of the "discussions"

I should of given you this main link PY Welcomes 2004-06 GTO Owners
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...play.php?f=502

[Alvin]

BTT - too bad there's so much rust on the red Le Mans aka Can Am...although "minor" by rust belt standards, from what is shown looks to be a major rework/rebuild IMO. No "touch up" of areas with that Metalic Red paint...total repaint most likely required AFTER rust eradication.

[BluMax]

Originally Posted by Alvin

Excellent. So you'll understand both sides and emotions of the "discussions"

I should of given you this main link PY Welcomes 2004-06 GTO Owners
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...play.php?f=502

YES I do, but Thanks for the heads up. I just like fast cars no matter what brand or emblem they wear.

[Pontiac1976]

Question did any of the 77 Can Am come with the hood release on the out side front bumper ?

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by Pontiac1976

Question did any of the 77 Can Am come with the hood release on the out side front bumper ?

Many did. The inside hood release was an option in '76-'77 on the LeMans. Option code T44.

[Chief City]

The seller sent me a copy of the invoice through an ebay message so the quality was pretty poor. It did list the 400 engine and trans but no Can Am option on the invoice. I still think what the seller says was very possible in which case it would not show up on the invoice, but the charges for the conversion would have shown up on other dealer documents that he no longer has, so there is no proof of a trip to Motortown that way. I asked if there were any early pictures from when he first got the car and have not gotten a response. Documentation or not, it is an interesting car. You could look at it as a fake Can Am or a very rare LeMans with unique accessories.

[Pontiacdaver]

Originally Posted by Chief City

You could look at it as a fake Can Am or a very rare LeMans with unique accessories.

I agree, I think it is a cool car either way. And I tend to believe the seller truly believes he bought a Can Am. If he were trying to pass it off as a CA, I would think he would have put the GP dash in it. I believe the dealer added the parts, and they told him it was a Can Am. No one, at the time, would have ever thought it would create the controversy it has 37 years later.

And Boss, at the time the mold broke, there may have been some spoilers floating around in the parts network. Or, the dealer may have gotten a totaled CA and stripped the parts off. Just like the old Tootsie Pop question, "The world may never know".

[77 Canamman]

The tooling was redone, and spoilers were made. A few cars were converted at the dealership level in order to fill the several orders that were outstanding. This is the most plausible explanation in regards to this red LeMans Sport Coupe. I would still like to know if this car has the Y6 block code stamping.

[Alvin]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

...more like "Blvd of Broken Tooling"....K

Originally Posted by Alvin

Indeed. "...tooling contracts were written."

"...there were almost 1,000 special white (1977) Le Mans Sport Coupes waiting to be shipped to Motortown. Our storage lot was already completely filled, so these cars sat at the factory. As you can imagine, storing over 1,000 white cars in one place becomes somewhat of a spectacle. Every time management looked out of their office window on this virtual 'sea' of (old model design replaced by '78 downsized platform) white cars, they got more concerned." http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=745287

So, does this mean that approximately 1,000 Le Mans Sport Coupes - which were never converted into Can Ams - are in circulation with Grand Prix instrument panels and dashes?

What would show on the build sheets or PHS for those that never were converted I wonder?

[camerjeff]

I don't know about 1000, but in thery there should have been 100-200 white Le Mans Sport coupes with GP Dashes out there, I do remember 1 in the late 80's in S/E Michigan. White car with Firethorn Interior with White Seats and a GP Dash, I looked at it but the price was not right, and the car had alot of rust and a non original 455 in it.

Never did any research on it, nor did I give it much thought about the GP Dash at the time. I had a 73-75 NASA hood at the time, and was looking for a car to put it on, the owner thought it would fit the 77, and when I realized it would not fit, that was the final issue that kept me from making an offer. So there must have been a few out there. But what are the odds some survived?

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by Pontiac1976

Question did any of the 77 Can Am come with the hood release on the out side front bumper ?

Mine has the outside hood release...it's mounted inside the bumper between driver side turn signal and license plate frame.