[dpoltzer]

I have 4- Rally ll wheels with the "JL" code by the valve stem. There is also the # "2" on one side of the stem and a "7" on the other side. On the inside of the wheel they are stamped 14x6 JK. I have consulted the Pontiac wheel decode chart but can not find the JL code wheels listed. What do I have and what might they be worth in unrestored condition? Thx.

['ol Pinion head]

Early '70 Model Pontiac A-body usage. Originals were produced from July of '69 til 11/25/69. Will need to look closer at the stamping to the left of the valve stem, to discern what month the wheel was produced, makes total sense if number to th left is a 7 (July). WIW, depends on condition, top condition, date matching set will bring the most. personally, I've shipped out several sets of matching date JL's stamped in early Oct, all went on high end '70 Judge restorations.

[johnta1]

Early 1970 A-body used JL, not sure how much before they were used.

A page I did using info from PY on deciphering the codes on the wheel.

Rally Wheel




I see OPH tree'd me on the date.

[dpoltzer]

Very helpful information gents! Thanks much.

[Held for Ransom]

John, on the M1 vs M5.

M = manufacturing plant Motor Wheel, 1 was in USA and 5 was in CANADA.
K (or KH) = manufacturing plant Kelsey-Hayes.
T (or NI) = manufacturing plant Norris Industries, maybe called Norris Technologies.

[johnta1]

Thanks, Mike!

I have added that info to the page.

[unruhjonny]

Since the OP seems to have his answers, maybe I can be humoured, and someone here can help me;
I have a set of Norris wheels, but the full date stamp seems to be absent;
Did Norris adapt the full date code sequence later than some?
These were purported to have been taken off a '70 Camaro SS



I have seen other wheels that don't quite fit this recorded identification and dating style - the 1969 IF wheels are a great example - I have not seen a single example that is (or appears to be) dated...

It was suggested that I buy the '70-75 Chevrolet by the numbers' book for more info on this subject.

[Held for Ransom]

Why would you need the book on this?
I remember someone asking a while ago on the "T" stamping of the wheel. I do know the CL was Chevrolet, Camaro I think. The only thing missing is the month stamping and it looks like a misstamp (something is there). Nothing stamped on the flats near the lug holes?

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

Why would you need the book on this?

incase someone here has missed in sharing some knowledge - it seems like you and John are the go-to guys on this...

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

I remember someone asking a while ago on the "T" stamping of the wheel. I do know the CL was Chevrolet, Camaro I think.

I may have mentioned these wheels, or another Norris wheel I have here before...
I also have a 1973 "EM" (F-body) 14x7" steel wheel that came from Norris; dated April 9th, 1973;
I have had that one for a number of years.
I believe that in an older thread you positively identified the mis-matched set of 14x7" wheels that I had at the time.

CL is 1970-1972 Fbody 14x7"
T10;
T = Norris Industries
1 = Line 1; USA (as per info shared in this thread)
0 = 1970

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

The only thing missing is the month stamping and it looks like a misstamp (something is there). Nothing stamped on the flats near the lug holes?

I bought these;
All four are identically stamped - I would think that all being stamped exactly the same would mean this was how they were intended to be stamped...
But I'm guessing you would know better than me.

I will look again, but I saw nothing.

Is it possible that rally wheels used a standardized dating/ID convention, while steel wheels didn't - till a point in time where the rally wheel style stampings were carried over?

I had not thought that these could have been mis-stamps, that is an interesting idea.

... even still this dating convention seems to predate the 1970 or 1969 model year while there are exceptions to the identification code/dating as lined out here (and on John's page) - case & point the 1969 IF wheels

Also, I mis-spoke on my last post, it looks like I have saved pictures of dated IF wheels, but to the best of my recollection, the IF wheels I have are undated.

[Transamric]

Perhaps I'm being redundant here, but a CL 14 x 7" plain steel wheel was also standard for '70-72 Formula and Esprit. Have gotten fairly hard to find.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Transamric

Perhaps I'm being redundant here, but a CL 14 x 7" plain steel wheel was also standard for '70-72 Formula and Esprit. Have gotten fairly hard to find.

They have indeed become rather tough to find;
I didn't get my set for cheap, but I think considering what these are going for of late, I got a fair deal - and these ones are really nice.
The guy I was dealing with was definitely a factor.

The CL wheel code was used on some Esprit's, BUT it was not the standard wheel on the Esprit unless optional tires were ordered;
Unless someone comes forward with better information, I am currently convinced that the wheel width was determined by the tire size;

The standard (no-charge) tire on both the base and Esprit models was an E78/14;
The Esprit (and base model if opted with a V8) could have as an option the F70/14 tires;
Opting for F70/14 tires would have changed the wheel.

E78/14 = 14x6" 'AM' code plain steel wheels; standard
E78/14 = 14x6" 'JO' code Rally II wheels; optional
F70/14 = 14x7" 'CL' code plain steel wheels; standard
F70/14 = 14x7" 'JS' code Rally II wheels; optional

I do not know at this time what years the 'AM' 14x6" steel wheels were used for, or what replaced them;
I believe, but am not certain right now if the 'JO' 14x6" Rally II was replaced with 'KU' coded wheels for 1971.
I do know that the 'CL' 14x7" steel wheels were used for 1970 through 1972, then replaced with 'EM' code wheels for 1973/1974, then replaced with 'UC' code wheels.
I do know that the 'JS' 14x7" Rally II was replaced with 'KS' code wheels for 1971, and used through 1975.

[Held for Ransom]

Never heard of a JO 14x6 Rally II wheel. Only 6 cyl. Firebirds should have received 14x6 wheels, unless it was a Space Saver spare.

[unruhjonny]

I've done a good amount of research on wheels applicable to 1970 Firebirds;
I also expanded it to include other wheels I might come across.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

Never heard of a JO 14x6 Rally II wheel. Only 6 cyl. Firebirds should have received 14x6 wheels, unless it was a Space Saver spare.

I was going to write a long winded response, but I stopped myself;

I consulted with:
1) my February 26th (1970) salesman pocket guide,
2) my (Jim Osborne reproduction) '70 Firebird Illustrated Facts & Features Manual,
3) as a copy of a "Beginning of Tomorrow" 1970 Firebird sales brochure

They all confirm the same information.

The standard tire on both the base and Esprit is in fact a E78/14 tire;
Actually, the "Beginning of Tomorrow" brochure actually makes it quite clear (as I have asserted) that this tire is on a 6" rim, while the F70/14 tire is on a 7" rim.

This is from the base model standard vs optional page:


This is from the Esprit standard vs optional page:


I suspect this is like the Esprit getting a 12 bolt rear end when opted with a L65 (400-2bbl) engine;
Opting for one thing changes another - just in this case oping for a larger tire bumps up the wheel width.

Now think about this for a moment - if this was the short response, imagine what the long winded one might have looked like - har-har!
(Oh my brothers would be making fun of me right now!)

[Bentwheelbob]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

I was going to write a long winded response, but I stopped myself;

I consulted with:
1) my February 26th (1970) salesman pocket guide, .....

You succeeded in your effort whether you meant to or not.

[Held for Ransom]

This is what I had...

[Held for Ransom]

Look at the assembly manual late today and found they changed it from 6 cyl/8 cyl to E78x14/rest.
Still no 14x6 Rally II.

[johnta1]

Higher resolution pic of HFR pic.

70 Bird Wheel Usage


And the 1st page:

70 Bird Wheel


Also ID Codes:

70 Bird Wheel ID Codes

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Held for Ransom

... Still no 14x6 Rally II.

I apologize if I have caused any confusion, I will look into this and properly reply when I find the source I got that information from.

I actually find it curious that no 14x6" Rally II is listed.

In the absence of a 14x6" Rally II (which was offered on other Pontiac's), and since both base and Esprit came with 14x6" wheels (c/w E78/14 tires);
It would seem to me at least that either a 14x6" Rally II should be listed somewhere, or opting for the Rally II on a base or Esprit (W67) would have required an extra cost larger optional tire.

The chart seems to make it quite clear than anything other than an E78/14 tire requires the wheel width to be changed to 7" wide.

['ol Pinion head]

JO coded 14x6 rally II's were manufactured, I've had numerous of them over the last 35 years. All were dated in Jan & Feb of '70, & from only ones paint penned, came from a '70 Bird. Have sold or traded multiple hundreds of '67-72 useage original Rally II's, tons of clean matched dated sets, & I've never had a request for a JO coded Rally II. From practice that particular medium depth notch 14" rally II wheel is good for one thing, & that is having the centers cut out for repro built JW's