[zippy]

Correction Ron, this thread lost 4 buyer's. I won't be thinking about Dougs now just because of their treatment of Darrel. I have a small milling buisness. I have sold product's that were not correct, inadvertantly. WHen brought to my attn, I told the buyer to send back, COD and I'll send out a new, correct item. Heck, I'm a little guy workin out of my basement. If I have a screw up, I expect ME to pay shipping and rectify the item and most likely not making a dime on the item. Now if I can do that, why can't a large, profitable company????

[TUNNEL PORT]

Right Zippy,

When I had an issue with the fit on the O-ports Dougs made for me. I made sure to let the customers that had received them to send them back to me & I'll have it taken care of at NO cost to them. Even though Doug had told me there was NO problem with the headers. I had to go through ten times more convincing than Darrell did. After weeks, 100's of dollars, many pics & arguing still did not get him to even consider that it was possible.

I delt with Debbie at that time & she was great & listened to what I had to say. She passed everything on to Doug & would get back to me every time with a negative response.

So as far as the staff there at Dougs goes. I have met them & cant say a bad thing about any of them. They were all nice to me & helpful. But just like in my business, when an employee makes a mistake. I take the blame because it was made by me as a company. The same goes the other way, if the employee holds to a negative response policy. Then everyone in the company is considered a (fill in the blank with your own word). But when you have an owner that is constantly praised & told he's the best. Your going to have a very tough time getting him to admit that HE & EVERYONE that works for him, including the welders, benders & others that built them. ARE ALL HUMAN & not "Tube Gods"

I do also believe that if it were a Chevy or a Ford there would be a more favorable response. Only because they would make up 80%-90% of all sales & would effect most sales if it were in fact true of the defect.

[Dryseals]

Make that 5 lost sales. I deal with a lot of vendors for work and for play. If I called up and complained about a fitment and had to send something off and wait, then I figure they really do not want my business and I will not deal with them again. People are human and do make mistakes. As soon as they found it would not fit in the jig, they should have shipped another out, right then and there and reimbursed the buyer for his shipping. Arrogance in business is not a good thing.

[gearbanger]

They lost my sale too, that's six. I was teetering back and forth between Doug's and Tri-y's. So when the dyno info came out basically proving the tri-y's were equivalent if not better than the 4-tube headers, I jumped ship and got the tri-y's. They should be here in a week or two. I can't wait.

Ccass, we appreciate your dedication to Pontiacs. But don't get too mad about people bashing other companies. If someone is doing a search on "Doug's headers" they are going to see all the positives as well as the negatives, and they can make their own choice. I am glad I saw both of these posts, especially about the coating issues. I definitely don't want to have issues with coating that I paid an extra $175 to get.

Also, if Doug or whoever is pissed, then they can get on here and straighten things out, just like the guy from Barry Grant did recently. I think he pretty well reassured confidence in his company by spending a little time to address the concerns rather than chewing out the people who were slamming them in private.

[TUNNEL PORT]

As far as the coating goes. It states in the warranty from Dougs "This warranty does not apply to deterioration of plating, paint or any other coating."

For the rusty headers:

They don't coat them there. Its sent out & should have a warranty from the coater. I wonder if someone called if they would warranty it. Since it is a coating that is sprayed on just like paint then heat cured. If there was a problem with the coating, bad prep or surface rust just starting. Then its quite possible to get tinny pin holes or fish eyes in the sprayed coating. Just ask any body man. Then it would start to rust through.

For the recoat on the modified headers that did not fit:

This would definitely not even be a warranty issue. The coating was new undamaged or deteriorated in any way. Until they received it & cut & welded the header. There fore you sent them a header that cost X amount, you should get one back worth the same amount. It states in the warranty that "If the part is deemed inoperable due to defect, it will be repaired or replaced." I'd say one that was coated should be replaced with a coated set. If it was a bare or just painted set. It could be repaired to be acceptable. Since there would be no other costs to either party. Sounds like the wrong call was made in this instance.

I wonder how many guys here frequent CP & TAC that would or may in the future remind or link this to guys inquiring about Dougs on those sites. after all thats 1000's more customers they could lose over time. After all at the time I post this the counter shows 4193 people that have read this thread.

When other supliers get a negitive post like Jegs, Summit, Barry Grant, just to name a few. They come on & fix things because it cant be very costly........

[shotgun]

Ok,here is what is going on my end.
The rep suggested that the motor mounts may be worn or defective.
They found when they made the headers they had an intereferance problem that turned out to be the mount.They will be sending me picture and the numbers for the mounts that worked for them.
On my end,I will be checking the condition of my customers mounts.I will not pass judgement until I get the info from Doug's and can compare them to what is on the car.
I also asked to have another set of headers sent to me in case the mounts are not the issue.I would hate to tie my customers car(and my shop) up longer then needed.
They agreed to send another set,at no cost to me.They are supposed to be being shipped as I type this.
They seemed very interested in the results and said they will continue to double check the design for issues.
So far they(Doug's) has dealt with me in a positive manner.
Again I will reserve final judgement until after it is resolved.

[TUNNEL PORT]

Great shotgun, Maybe they have been reading this post & changing there way of thinking?

Darrell or grandville455, any news?

[Larry Navarro]

wow....a 5 page topic on crappy customer service, with over 4300 hits....where are the "resident" DOUG cheerleaders rallying at?

[wheelspin]

Doug's fan here ; two trouble-free installs on my GP (one year and 7,000 miles) and GTO (4 years and 30,000 miles), and I just ordered a set of Doug's for my second-gen Firebird "G" machine.

I think it is unfortunate that Cass had to get involved in this dispute which should have been between the injured party and Doug's, but I appreciate his attempt to communicate with Doug's on behalf of Forum members. I believe his point is that after 5 pgs. of bashing this vendor there will be little, if any, positive feedback when this complaint has a satisfactory outcome . "Love this product" threads usually die after 5 or 6 members post "me too".

Les

[Skip Fix]

Well let me tell you my experience with Hedman over a set of 1 3/4" round ports. Went to test fit them and both sides had the back tube hit the firewall so they could never fit. The flange was 1/2" off the head at one end and flush at the other.Called then sent them back on my nickle. They called and said they fit the jig so "I must have moved the motor back in the car"(I'm original owner!)Oh and flanges were "within limits". I even sent pictures of mock up to change tubes , they wouldn't do it!Bascially they didn't fit the correct application and a way off flange and tough luck. We changed two tubes ourselves and they fit great.

Second set of Hedman's that had a collector hitting transmission it was pointed in so much they did fix for free.

[form406]

got cheap hookers for $99. for my 74 formula just so i could go through the experience without screwing up expensive ones...i cut the flanges, ground them to nice shape...installed them with the plastic bag on so i didnt scratch them...used shorter bolts when needed...quick install...only thing i dont like is the driver side collector flange triangle points up at the floorboard and has minimal clearance (i customized that,ground down tip, welded on stud,)...dont seem to have major rust problems when i keep driving it...i imagine slipfit would have better clearance...oh yeah..gotta use mini starter..stock wont clear...

[shotgun]

Just following up.
I got the email with the pictures of the mounts from Doug's.Today raised the motor and pulled the mounts.
Guess what?,the pass side is about 3/16 lower then the ones Doug's shows,the driverside is 5/16 lower.I ordered the part #s that Doug's gave me and will compare them to the ones I removed today.
The mounts may not be "all" of the problem but they may be a big part of it.
I hope to recieve the new set of headers in a day or two,at that point we should have the final word.
My fingers are crossed.

[Darrell]

How did you get your headers in a day or 2? I still have no headers.

[Darrell]

Dougs just called me looks like good news, look at my new post.

http://forums.performanceyears.com/g...1/m/9741010911

[shotgun]

Darrel,they shipped them Friday,a day or two from my post has them here today or tomorrow.
I did "mention" you were having a problem also

[shotgun]

Got the new ones today.I will try to install them tomorrow.

[shotgun]

Sorry for the delayed post,my computer crashed.
Anyway,got the "new" dougs.I compared the "old" to the new and there is a visible difference between the two.
The distance between #5 and #7 is greater.Also #5 also hangs down a bit lower.
THEY FIT!
The fit is close,but it matches a picture that was sent to me by Dougs.
The whole process has been a pain but Dougs dealt with me in a positive manner.

[Darrell]

Mine are in and fit also. They sent a picture of the clearance on the car they installed them on. What tht H#ll is the trick to getting the top bolt on the oil filter housing tight? I got it but I think next time I will use allen head 3/8 bolts. There was an 1" difference in were these headers lined up with my exaust from the other set of headers. Luckily I had my new exaust clamped and not welded yet.
I will now except apologies from Ron on his thinking that the almighty Dougs could not make a mistake
The truth is that mistakes can be made just dont blame the customer first then admit to your mistake later. It should be the other way around!!! Anyway they fit and I think I will start her up on Saturday. Are you in Darb?

[grandville455]

AWESOME BUD!!!I AM IN!!! LIKE I SAID LETS FIRE HER UP AND THEN WELL OPEN BOTH OUR DUMPS AND PISS OFF THE NEIGHORS ........WHAT TIME?

[Darrell]

Hello Earth to Ron!!!!!!