[Goin' Topless]

From the looks of the picture, I'd say the coating was not cured properly in the oven. To get a part to the proper temperature requires an initial "overshoot" of the target temperature then dial back to the proper temp in a few minutes. This gets the part itself up to temp quickly and minimizes oven time. We had the same problems when we were "learning" ourselves on the process. When they are not cured right, you'll know right away because the coating will flake or rust.

You mentioned that it started at the collector and flange? Those are the two hottest places on a header during use. Were the headers used during a break-in procedure? Temps can spike if you're breaking in a new cam. Some companies do not warranty coatings if this is the case.

Also, the pic claiming to have no coating at all between the pipes is something else entirely. It was coated, but not polished properly. When the "shiny" ceramic coats come out of the oven, they are chalk white. They have to be polished to get the finish they have. Polishing also creates the "seal" that locks moisture out. Note the two rings around the leading edge of the rusty area. That is evidence of polishing beads moving around the unpolished area, probably because they were too big to get in there and scrub it to a shiny surface. If the ceramic is not polished, it does not have a moisture-proof seal.

Almost all ceramic coaters have a single free re-coat in their warranty. We do too. This case is not an ideal situation for a free re-coat deal and hopefully Pertronix can see that and make other arrangements.

Either way the ceramic coating was not done properly and you're owed (at the very least) the reliable ceramic coat that you purchased for your headers. How that happens is the X Factor.

[Jerry H.]

I have to agree with Scott on this one. Although I don't know all the details, I would stay on PY and look to them to make the headers right. You paid your money to them, not Petronix. Chris, you reading this thread?

[crustysarge]

I have not heard back from Pertronix but PY has emailed me and said they see there is a problem with the header. I just emailed them and told them it is time to step up and make good on this.

Headers were not used for break in, the 400 was already in the car with RA manifolds.

I'll keep you guys posted. The car is now at the body shop and pulling headers is going to be royal PITA.

[4dblnkldude]

The more I think about it, they should give you a new set of headers. I spent almost 800 bucks on mine three and a half years ago from ames, py didn't have them. [ 69 fb with round port]. Just hearing about this is dissapointing me. I usually tell everyone that asks about them how great they are, money well spent, etc. I even broke my cam in with them. Hope it gets resolved, tell them to put an ASAP on it!!!!

[grandville455]

PY will make it right with you they did with me!!!... although i dont like that my nice chrome ones are doing the same thing the other dougs did with there standard coating ....

[PunchT37]

My Hooker super comps did the same thing. Had them re-coated and they are doing the same thing again. I also installed a new set of Dougs on a friends T/A. The car has about 1000 miles since install. They look like that already. I think i`m done with coated headers.

[TinjunTribe]

How many here have been through a merger/acquisition/buy out? One Co. buys another established or "growing" company that has good Brand Recognition. The new parent company doesn't always look for ways to make the product even better.....only more PROFITABLE.

How can they make it more profitable....oh, maybe get rid of long time employees who are paid highly that know what the H3ll they are doing, replace them with lower paid inexperienced people, and new management that is from the new parent company..................maybe outsource the coating process if it used to be done in house....skip a step in production that seems "uneeded" in the eyes of the new manager.......lot of variables that can save a buck here or there.

interesting that it coincides with Pertronix purchase. Guess we'll see how good their customer service is now too. "One time recoat".........so if they follow the same f'ed up process and it does it again you're SOL. Shame they even use that language, like they are doing you a favor.........

Anyone have insights as to changes in production, or Managers, Supervisors, processes at Doug's after the purchase.

Good post and good to know about this before shelling out bucks for a coating that won't be any better than the quick to burn off black stuff.....paying for looks and heat retention and getting neither, that's BS.

[topdown]

You may be better off just getting them recoated locally at your expense if they won't send you a new set. Turn around time will be next to nothing. I've been through these scenarios myself and usually wind up just handling it myself because everyone just sucks.
I think Dougs should treat you better.

[smellmygas]

im in the same boat, i didnt even think about contacting them about my problem...i installed my headers and less than a WEEK there was evidence of rust/corrosion building...the car was outside in the hot summer, i didnt have it inside for the first 2 months but now is inside and they look horrible EVERYWHERE on the headers. I spent 600 on my set through summit, IMO they were supposed to be the best, once i saw the rust starting i was a bit pissed...I may try and contact them as well.

[crustysarge]

OK, here is the follow up:

Pertonix stopped responding to my emails. I asked PY to step in and they contacted Pertonix who said they are not budging and will recoat if I send them and pay both ways, period. PY did step up and we reached an agreement.

I will not purchase nor recommend Doug's to anyone at anytime. My buddy is looking for some headers and I told him to go Hedman 28150 w/o coating and be happy. IMO Pertronix has ruined the Doug's line and they will be the ultimate loser once the word gets out.

[4dblnkldude]

Ya know I bought mine in late 04. And I remember reading that the price went down about 6 months later is that when pertronix acquired them? does anyone know if thats the case as to why the price went down? I geuss tininjuntribe is right.

[judgethis]

I bought mine about a year ago, installed them about 6 months ago and they have rust on them also. Two months go I fired up and broke the motor in with them on and they seemed to rust even quicker. I only have about 2 hours of run time on them and they look like they've been on for a couple of years. After I broke the cam in, the car wouldnt idle right and found out the cam was wiped out. So I had to pull the motor and its back in the machine shop so I'm debating if I should send them out to get recoated. I was going to see if I could get anything done but it figures I cant find the reciept(of course I found all the other paperwork that came with the exhaust system). I bought mine from PY. I really like the fit and how easily they go in. I got the PYPES exhaust system to go with the headers and it sounds awesome. Cant wait to drive it. I think pertronix bought Doug's within the last year to year and a half. There was an article in Hot Rod about it and did a feature of how there made.

[428PHIL]

Maybe you guys should all get together and threaten to sue if Pertonix doesn't make good on the lousy coating. Have you talked to upper management about the issues, or just some jerk that doesn't care about the problem. Am glad I got my Doug's when they were really Doug's.

[quicksilver97ta]

Great. I bought a pair for my 68 from PY in the fall last year. I thought I would have them on the car by now but they are still in a box in a closet. I just looked at them again as I have followed this post, no signs of rust.... yet.
Does this rust not show up until after you fire the engine?

[greyno3]

Well I need to open my box of doug's (1 7/8 round port) I spent almost 700.00 from Butler last month. I always heard that production ceramic coatings weren't as good as custom,but I figured that since it was Doug's, I would be getting a quality product. Is Jet-Hot still around?

[TinjunTribe]

Distributors have the power. If this board host (PY) will quit carrying repro rear bumpers that aren't up to snuff........they should quit selling Doug's until they get their act together.

I think a sign sheet should be posted....you sign as purchaser with the problem and post a picture if possible.

If PY and Summit halted distribution, the problem will get fixed (hopefully permanently). Sounds like buying uncoated and send to Jet Hot or like shop would be the way to go right now. Final cost would probably be close anyhow.

But, Doug's has its name on a lot of sponsored events/cars (GeeTo tiger right?).....so I am sure that relationship has to be "managed" somewhat tenderly.

Funny, try to save a buck in production somewhere.......and end up LOSING a ton of money recoating hundreds of sets of headers, typical management bumble, they have to pay the price (just think, they have to pay someone to strip them, recoat them, labor...materials)! Talk about eroding their profit margin!!!

[78w72]

!!!!!DOUG'S SCHMOUG'S!!!!!!!

sorry to hear about everyones problems with dougs. i considered them when i bought headers but could not justify the outrageous price, why are they so expensive, there is no extra cost in manufacturing them compared to other quality headers. & from the looks of the pics they don't even fit alll that well, there is no reason for them to almost hit the control arm area. hedmans fit perfect & are a quality header.
i chose the uncoated hedmans that fit a 78 400 4 speed t/a. i then sandblasted the factory crappy paint off & coated them with por20 high heat header coating.....it works awsome. 2 years & 2000 miles later & they are almost like new still. if the header is prepped & cleaned right & the por 20 is applied & cured correct it last a very long time.

after reading this thread & many others like it i am SOOO glad i didnt pay hundreds for ceramicoat, it seems to be quite crappy. i paid $30 for the small can of por 20 & can still do another set of headers with whats left. this stuff is awsome & looks great too, i got the aluminum colored por20 & it almost looks like ceramicoat, they also have black.

[ScottD3]

78W72 that looks great, I also bought the hedman headers mine are the shorty ones and I had them ceramic coated by Miller's powder coating. I thought PY would have stepped up and replaced your headers by now that is the only thing they can or should do. I would open a class action law suite and see what happens when this many people are not happy something would change.

[428PHIL]

Originally Posted by greyno3

Well I need to open my box of doug's (1 7/8 round port) I spent almost 700.00 from Butler last month. I always heard that production ceramic coatings weren't as good as custom,but I figured that since it was Doug's, I would be getting a quality product. Is Jet-Hot still around?

Contact jet-hot.com 610-265-0202. Had my intake and a set of headers done back in 01 on a 67 bird. The intake now on my LeMans has held up great, no problems. I think they sell headers as part of thier product line.

[crustysarge]

Problem is Doug's warranty clearly states it does not cover rust, you lose hands down. You guys need to get on the bandwagon and start pestering the vendor and Pertonix.

I plan on sending a registered letter to the general manager expressing my thoughts.

Here is an email of someone there, I have no idea what her job is but it was who contacted me, load her up:
Debbie Flores (debbie@pertronix.com