[dld]

to loud. thanks

[Formulajones]

At one time there were 2 different Flowmaster transverse systems on the market. The Force II and the American Thunder. I have both systems here and have run both of them on 2 different cars.

The Force II was a mellow system, nice sound, no drone. However Flowmaster quit making this system several years ago, so it's been off the market for quite some time.

The American Thunder system lives up to it's name. It was friggin loud ALL the time no matter what, and had a ton of drone. I never liked it at all.

Unfortunately, and why I have no idea, Flowmaster only sells this American Thunder system now.

[Ccass]

Also don't forget that neither of the FM systems were/are true dual, stainless and neither has an X-pipe. The SGF70 is the only true dual, mandrel bent, transverse mounted muffler system on the market. Incredible flow to go along with the great clearance.

[Formulajones]

The Flowmaster stuff is old tech. Back in the day when I bought those, Pypes didn't even exist. Flowmaster was one of the few (maybe 1 other choice besides a stock gardner) that even offered an aftermarket better flowing (than stock) transverse system on the market at that time.

[Formulajones]

If it's an consolation Ccass, I do run the Pypes SGF70 on 2 of my own cars here, and have installed several others. I like the system.

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

If it's an consolation Ccass, I do run the Pypes SGF70 on 2 of my own cars here, and have installed several others. I like the system.

Have you experienced the issues I have noted, especially 1976-81 2nd gens?

It doesn't appear owners of the earlier 2nd gens have had the issues I experienced, since the fuel and brake lines are in different locations, and they don't use the splitter tips...

[Formulajones]

I haven't done the later 2nd gens (mine is a 70) and most stuff I get in here is older stuff.

But what I have experienced similar to your splitter tailpipe deal is that the way Pypes configures the tailpipes, they aren't even close to working correctly on my 69 Z/28. They exit in the wrong location, which is too far towards the outside of the car. So they don't line up with the factory indentations under the tail panel pinch welds, and basically try to exit very close to the quarter panel/trunk drop off area. Technically the tail pipes need to come in about 3 inches on each side to be correct.

So what I'm doing is taking factory Z/28 tailpipes that have the correct bends and adapting them to the Pypes exhaust system so that it will appear stock when looking at the car from the rear.

This takes some fab work but I knew this going in. As far as the rest of the system, it fit great with no issues around the brake or fuel lines.

[vidguy]

My SGF system wore a hole in my stock metal line installed in my 75 Formula. Car started sputtering..
I had been running the system for about 7 years. It must of taken a long time to wear the hole in the metal.

Those pipes that go over the axle could be bent more upright in my opinion.

If you let the muffler hang lower than the differential center this might not be an issue. In my case I had, and still do, run the muffler so it sits no lower than the center section of the rear. The issue resolution in my case was that I had the tank out before I could remove the line to find the problem. By then the Tanks-Inc and the 1/2" ptfe fuel line upgrade idea was planted..
The original install was a hassle due also to the hangers that were included being parts store generic rubber hangers. The proper hangers they recommend were extra. I posted about that at the time.

I recently re installed this entire rear section when I upgraded the tank and lines. I trimmed the over the axle tubes on the end that goes in the muffler, and I cut off a piece of the brace up on the floorboard to give the fuel line a little more clearance. I then put some hard plastic hose on it too in that area..

I appreciate the system being available and it fits well from a ground clearance perspective, but the rear pieces can be trouble. Maybe it's typical of exhaust installs. And these 2nd Gen cars are a puzzle. On the other had the Torque Tech system I installed in the 67 GTO was as easy as hanging clothes in an empty closet.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ight=hole+fuel

[lfdsteve]

Can't say it's the same deal but I put a pypes 3" side by side true dual w x pipe on my 71FB. Ran into several fit issues (besides cramming 3 inches of pipe into a car not designed for such) after breaking for lunch and actually reading the instructions, I noticed directions said "start at rear tips and work forward ". Again, can't say it's your issue but worth noting perhaps...
Great stuff otherwise, good luck!
Steve

[vidguy]

Definitely start at the rear. It does say that. Good point.

[Ccass]

I think some owners expect a direct fit because they see that we made OEM downpipes, hangers and tips and we've classified the system to specifically fit for example a 1976 Trans Am. The system was never intended to be a direct fit for all these applications. Our own long time PY Forums member and exhaust guru, Tom Hand designed that system on one vehicle and from there we slowly determined that it could be used on all 1st and 2nd gen F-bodies by changing tailpipe options. Combine that with the different tailpipe exits, different tips and you have a multitude of ways that system can be installed. Then in general, that system is tricky to install since all the loose components have to meet right at the single muffler (which is also loose!) This is why we have and will always get varied opinions on how that system fits. We get 'fantastic' to 'doesn't fit' But the system does fit. We've installed over 30 of them here for customers over the years and never had to turn anyone away.
We continue to ask struggling customers to send us their pics and sometimes we can offer ideas on how to end the frustration. we also continue to offer our own observations and tips here on the forums. If you look deep into this forum area, you'll see a lot of contributions.

Restoration shops like Scott Tieman, Fast Automotive, Dan Jensen and many more have come back to this system many times for resto-mod type vehicles. I have it on my 1977 Bandit resto-mod and would never put anything else on it. It's hands down the best system on the market for that application. If you can figure out the jigsaw puzzle!

[77 Canamman]

I'm very good at jigsaw puzzles, but this was a whole other matter.

I started at the rear and worked forward, as has been discussed.

Chris, I have a hard time believeing that nobody else has mentioned the tacky multi-piece tailpipes for the 1975-81 splitter equipped 2nd gens. The multiple joints are easily seen in the rear wheel opening. It also can allow for improper and inconsistent splitter orientation and angles. Please consider producing a splitter specific tailpipe for this system....

The installation is one job I would rather forget about.

The car did benefit from this system from an appearance, exhaust note, and performance increase.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by vidguy

My SGF system wore a hole in my stock metal line installed in my 75 Formula. Car started sputtering..
I had been running the system for about 7 years. It must of taken a long time to wear the hole in the metal.

Those pipes that go over the axle could be bent more upright in my opinion.

If you let the muffler hang lower than the differential center this might not be an issue. In my case I had, and still do, run the muffler so it sits no lower than the center section of the rear. The issue resolution in my case was that I had the tank out before I could remove the line to find the problem. By then the Tanks-Inc and the 1/2" ptfe fuel line upgrade idea was planted..
The original install was a hassle due also to the hangers that were included being parts store generic rubber hangers. The proper hangers they recommend were extra. I posted about that at the time.

I recently re installed this entire rear section when I upgraded the tank and lines. I trimmed the over the axle tubes on the end that goes in the muffler, and I cut off a piece of the brace up on the floorboard to give the fuel line a little more clearance. I then put some hard plastic hose on it too in that area..

I appreciate the system being available and it fits well from a ground clearance perspective, but the rear pieces can be trouble. Maybe it's typical of exhaust installs. And these 2nd Gen cars are a puzzle. On the other had the Torque Tech system I installed in the 67 GTO was as easy as hanging clothes in an empty closet.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ight=hole+fuel

I always hang the transverse muffler in such a way that when the car is on the ground, the bottom of the muffler is actually above the lowest part of the rearend center section. I can see about 2" of the cover and the lower bolts that hold it on. Basically the muffler is only protruding below the gas tank about 2 or 3 inches at most, looking at it from the rear of the car. Hardly noticeable, and I spend some time in this area to get it "just right" for my taste. With the muffler tucked up like this, the over-axle pipes at the top are barely 1/2 to 3/4" away from the floors. By doing this, and tilting the muffler slightly at the same time, it keeps the tail pipes tight to the tail panel. Low hanging tail pipes drives me nuts on an otherwise nice car. So I work with it till I get what I want.

As far as the hangers go, I've never used any hangers supplied with an exhaust kit. I use only correct style restoration hangers that are specific to the model I'm working on. Of course these are designed to fit factory 2" or 2 1/4" systems, so I modify them in a subtle way to work with the 2 1/2" system so when looking at the car at first glance, you see factory appearing and correct hangers and clamps.
On our 69 Z/28 for instance, the tail pipe hangers supplied with the Pypes system aren't even close to working on a 1st gen. They are designed more for the second gen tail pipe configuration. 1st gen tail pipe hangers are actually up inside the wheel well beside the tires. Not at the trunk drop offs next to the gas tank like a 2nd gen.
Matter of fact, getting back to the height of the muffer, when using the factory intermediate pipe hangers on this car (they attach right before going over the axle) they placed the muffler perfectly with the over axle pipes just far enough from the floor as I described above. I didn't have to modify a thing. So in some cases, like this one, using OEM restoration hangers actually made the Pypes system fit very nice.

In a nut shell, when I buy an exhaust kit, I'm mainly after the mandrel bent pipes and performance mufflers. The rest of it I generally don't use and prefer to work with it, and plan to change things going in to satisfy myself.

Yes, I agree with you. The Torque Tech stuff is excellent!! Unfortunately they are now out of business. They were the only company out there making correct 1st gen mandrel bent 2 1/2" tailpipes that had the correct bends putting the tail pipe exit under the leaf spring like the factory did it. Unfortunately they closed doors before I could get another set from them.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Ccass

I think some owners expect a direct fit because they see that we made OEM downpipes, hangers and tips and we've classified the system to specifically fit for example a 1976 Trans Am. The system was never intended to be a direct fit for all these applications. Our own long time PY Forums member and exhaust guru, Tom Hand designed that system on one vehicle and from there we slowly determined that it could be used on all 1st and 2nd gen F-bodies by changing tailpipe options. Combine that with the different tailpipe exits, different tips and you have a multitude of ways that system can be installed. Then in general, that system is tricky to install since all the loose components have to meet right at the single muffler (which is also loose!) This is why we have and will always get varied opinions on how that system fits. We get 'fantastic' to 'doesn't fit' But the system does fit. We've installed over 30 of them here for customers over the years and never had to turn anyone away.
We continue to ask struggling customers to send us their pics and sometimes we can offer ideas on how to end the frustration. we also continue to offer our own observations and tips here on the forums. If you look deep into this forum area, you'll see a lot of contributions.

Restoration shops like Scott Tieman, Fast Automotive, Dan Jensen and many more have come back to this system many times for resto-mod type vehicles. I have it on my 1977 Bandit resto-mod and would never put anything else on it. It's hands down the best system on the market for that application. If you can figure out the jigsaw puzzle!

It's a good system. I don't have a problem with it. I think a lot of complaints come from people that expect it to be a simple bolt on for the money they spend. Once they find out they have to cut and tweak things it changes their whole perspective. But in reality, there is no other stainless mandrel bent system on the market as economical as the Pypes system. Everything else jumps $100 in price or more.

And I completely understand there are some design influences in the system on purpose so that it can be retrofitted to various cars that use the transverse muffler. It's just the nature of something like this and I'm willing to work with that. It sure beats the alternative of running a stock crush bent gardner system and choking the car. The tail pipe dilemma on my Z/28 is a minor issue I can fix with another set of factory tailpipes.
Here is a shot of the car with it's born with exhaust system still intact (although the muffler did have 2 holes in the bottom of it, lol) Those are it's factory tail pipes with the correct bends that actually come under the leaf springs. Hard to see but the best shot I have. Look hard enough and you'll see the tailpipes once clear of the spring bend inward about 3 inches moving the tail pipes away from the quarter panels. There are 2 bends, one to come under the spring and the other to straighten the tail pipe back out.
https://youtu.be/SDMeBoQpf58

[Formulajones]

Now here's the same car with the Pypes exhaust. Here it has Pypes supplied tail pipes that dump behind the quarter panels.

https://youtu.be/5dTNw93VPEQ

[77 Canamman]

private video..

[unruhjonny]

"video unavailable"

[Formulajones]

CRAP!! Sorry, this video stuff is too complicated, too many settings.

I think it's fixed here....

https://youtu.be/5dTNw93VPEQ

[unruhjonny]

works!

[vidguy]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I always hang the transverse muffler in such a way that when the car is on the ground, the bottom of the muffler is actually above the lowest part of the rearend center section. I can see about 2" of the cover and the lower bolts that hold it on....

Yes. I agree that is what I did.

Originally Posted by Formulajones

The Torque Tech stuff is excellent!! Unfortunately they are now out of business. They were the only company out there making correct 1st gen mandrel bent 2 1/2" tailpipes that had the correct bends putting the tail pipe exit under the leaf spring like the factory did it. Unfortunately they closed doors before I could get another set from them.

Yeah it is a good one.