#81  
Old 10-15-2013, 01:09 AM
Chipped Tooth Chipped Tooth is offline
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Mgarblik.... Yes exactly what I'm gonna make, little to no affect on a pontiac???

I bet it won't hurt a thing......

Enlighten me on how a Phord can only run 3-4 weekend without one.

And with this simple band aid it will last the summer???

Results are proof, I will have one on my pontiac no matter how far you guys blow this up.....

  #82  
Old 10-15-2013, 08:50 AM
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Nobody is "blowing you up". You asked for opinions and you got them; from a pretty wide cross-section of well-meaning individuals with a lot of accumulated experience.

No it won't hurt.

You say "results are proof"......lots of Pontiacs making big HP and lots of runs, without a girdle.

The Pontiac block is not identical to the Ford block that you have been observing.

Go forward with your project. Simple as that.

Eric

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  #83  
Old 10-15-2013, 10:18 AM
Chipped Tooth Chipped Tooth is offline
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On a 13 to 1 .060 over 400 factory 4 bolt block ARP studs frets with a 250 shot.

On my new block it will have steel straight caps, factory already drilled and tapped.

With my homemaid girdle

I bet there won't be any more fretting......

I appreciate everyone opinions and comments.

But to say the band aid design don't help or work...... Well your obviously more intelligent than I.

  #84  
Old 10-15-2013, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipped Tooth View Post

I appreciate everyone opinions and comments.

But to say the band aid design don't help or work...... Well your obviously more intelligent than I.
CT, Had a Big Boss (in my Research organization) who used to say, "an experiment and some data is worth far more than 1000 "Experts" Opinions.

Do your testing and post up how it worked out.

Tom Vaught

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  #85  
Old 10-15-2013, 08:08 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Band-aids help cuts to heal. as Tom said, you have the means and inclination to make the part, so give it a try. To improve your chance of the best success and that's what we all want, install longer dowels in the block, use studs and lots of ARP lube and torque all the fasteners to the full 100 Ft. lbs. The rear to 120-125 lbs. Carefully line hone to the middle of the spec., flipping the block numerous times to hold the taper to .0002 max. We have tried hundreds of things with the Pontiac engine, such as making over 1000HP on a cast N 3.25" crank in a stock, non-filled block. All the "experts" at the time said we would run over the crank on the first pass. Shifted at 7200 RPM and crossed the stripe at 7600 RPM. Ran it for years before it finally split through the #2 main. Go for it!

  #86  
Old 10-15-2013, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vaught View Post
CT, Had a Big Boss (in my Research organization) who used to say, "an experiment and some data is worth far more than 1000 "Experts" Opinions.

Do your testing and post up how it worked out.

Tom Vaught
So if the engine stays together and shows little stress, do you contribute that to the girdle or something else???

What power level is the build suppose to make?

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  #87  
Old 10-15-2013, 10:56 PM
BruceWilkie BruceWilkie is offline
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CT not trying to stop you...the Ford caps have nothing to stop fore/aft movement... main reason the halo's help.. I doweled my 528 Ford(75 460 2 bolt block) I built a few years back... wish I had a chance to inspect it... it hasnt been apart yet... the guy has been running upper 8's at 3000lbs for three years now...

Pontiac had the foresight to add dowels.. its a smart idea vs just relying on clamp and a tid of side interference on registered blocks. Much more difficult to move cap in any shearing direction if its doweled. The Ford halo's I've seen only located by the bolts. IMO there is room for improvement there.

Dowels work... I suggest bigger than stock dowels on your caps and dowel your girdle/halo to your caps so nothin can move in any direction there... If you are tyin to pan rail too, dowel it there as well. IMO dowels should be harder material than material its mounted in.

BTW alot of oil pans might give you headaches after you add your reinforcement... keep a pan handy as you lay this out... Good luck with this project.

  #88  
Old 11-18-2019, 09:53 PM
AIR RAM AIR RAM is offline
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I know this is an old thread... but does anyone know what the conclusion was?

Did the original Poster "CHIPPED TOOTH" or Taff2 ever complete a working girdle?

I have read the entire tread and the lack of a conclusion just leaves one wondering what happened... Sooo, does anyone know if either of them came up with a working model?

SPEED SAFE, NICK

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  #89  
Old 11-18-2019, 11:28 PM
Chipped Tooth Chipped Tooth is offline
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Wow, it's been a while!

AIR RAM
Yes it took complete care of the main cap fretting I had previously.

Installed a few on 2 bolt blocks also, no issues with Nitrous.

Here is one I made for an 488 Oldsmobile.
We were gonna add pan rails but owner didn't feel like dealing with the pan mods.
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  #90  
Old 11-19-2019, 05:41 AM
TheGrudge TheGrudge is offline
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I was looking pretty hard for one of these a couple years back. I remember trying to find the Mondello piece but getting nowhere. I bought Paul Spotts’ windage tray which is kinda like a “mini girdle”. Thought I scoured the forum pretty thoroughly - must have missed this thread, or maybe thought it was a dead end. CT - are you still able to make these?
Thanks AIR RAM for asking - kinda seems the logical thing to have done

  #91  
Old 11-19-2019, 07:29 AM
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At power levels above 800 hp with a factory block I think it's money much better spent to get a 8 counter weight Billet Crank made up if you have the needed steel main caps in place already.

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  #92  
Old 11-19-2019, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipped Tooth View Post
Wow, it's been a while!

AIR RAM
Yes it took complete care of the main cap fretting I had previously.

Installed a few on 2 bolt blocks also, no issues with Nitrous.

Here is one I made for an 488 Oldsmobile.
We were gonna add pan rails but owner didn't feel like dealing with the pan mods.
Did this fit inside the oil pan? Looks like it may need pan mods to the front at the least. How much would you make one and sell for?

  #93  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:34 AM
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I think it would be worth making ..

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  #94  
Old 11-19-2019, 08:26 PM
AIR RAM AIR RAM is offline
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Did this fit inside the oil pan? Looks like it may need pan mods to the front at the least. How much would you make one and sell for?
x2

Inquiring minds want to know!!!

SPEED SAFE, NICK

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  #95  
Old 11-19-2019, 10:21 PM
Chipped Tooth Chipped Tooth is offline
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I can still make them but I won't be offering any up for purchasing.

The pan on Pontiac and Olds need to be clearanced in the front area, map gas on the torch, 2" trailer ball and some heavy wall 2" stock with a hammer takes care of the clearance without it looking terrible.

The 400 I installed my first one on was basically the same as the first 400 Just reblocked it
Factory 4 bolt block with factory caps. I never installed steel caps.
Only difference was I tightened up the quench and switched from a big shot plate to the Crosshair plate.

  #96  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:01 AM
DarcyL DarcyL is offline
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I have also wondered if a main girdle would help the 500557 light casting 400 blocks stop cracking the main webs in a performance build. I know everyone says just get a 481988 block, but around here Pontiac blocks are getting very scarce, and we may one day need to use some of these less desirable castings-

Darcy

  #97  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:10 AM
Chipped Tooth Chipped Tooth is offline
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I'm sure it would help, notice how thin the webbing is on that Olds 455 block.
It's practically the same thing on the 557 400 block.

  #98  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:27 AM
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I remember running across the thread. Cool that you actually did it.

I have been working on a main girdle for a Pontiac on and off for at least the last year. Mine is different, it is a two teir halo set up and attaches to the pan rails. I am trying to keep it in the stock pan with just the pan rail steps for pan mods. I have the main beam supports left. I have the halos done, pan rails done, just out of mild steel so far. This winter my plan is to finish the rest of model for the supports on Solidworks . Then it is off to the laser to be cut from a better alloy. Right now I have 4 planned, 1 going on a 500+ hp 500557 block, one on a 1000hp turbo 3” build, 1 on a 3.25 main 455 and 1 to put on an engine to see were it grenades in a V8 pulling tractor. No big deal for me to do more if someone wants one. I do not plan to post pictures until it is ready to head to the laser. That will be the final design. If there there is interest I will sell them or find someone else that wants to sell them. Not sure what it will cost, kind of dependent on how many we do. As long a it is cut with the laser and not the cnc mill, it should be pretty reasonable cost wise.

Good job on your project

  #99  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:38 AM
Chipped Tooth Chipped Tooth is offline
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I was always planning on making the girdle tie the pan rails together also but I never went any farther than the Halo.

The Olds would have been my first except the owner didn't want to deal with modifying the pan.

I use 1/2" 316 or 304 stainless depending on what they have handy or 1045 steel to save a few bucks.

  #100  
Old 11-20-2019, 12:45 AM
Dragncar Dragncar is offline
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Why couldn't someone build a girdle that on the sides anyway, was part of the pan. Like a Mopar and their flatish oil pans but this deal would have to be thick on the sides for strength.Then make some custom main caps that could be cross bolted to the "oil pan" sides. like a LS engine. It would be heavy and expensive, but could be done. If the main part of it was cast out of malleable iron or steel it would be easier. But the molds are expensive yo justify. The whole thing would bolt on the block with all the 5/16 oil pan bolts. Or maybe 7/16 if you could up bolt it.

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