[RocktimusPryme]

If you got a pass to correct what you think was a mistake in your build what would you do differently? Mostly talking about engine stuff here, but open to anything really. Especially things that dont turn the budget upside down. I wouldnt tell a guy using 6x-4 heads that he should save up for another 10 years for some DCI RAV heads.

I was thinking about this myself recently and I thought it would be a fun conversation that might spark some people in the middle of their builds not to make the same choices that they might come to regret. Often once the drivetrain gets dropped in, we live with any errors because its too big of a pain to yank the motor.

So from people who have years and or thousands of miles on their builds, what would you change if you could have it to do over.

For me its pretty easy. Oil Pan. No question. I was getting to the end of an expensive build, looking at where I could save money to get the job across the finish line. Cheaped out and used a $100 factory style (with baffles) oil pan. No scraper, no windage. Its always kinda made me queesy to do any kinda of spirited driving with lots of turns/braking etc.

This was brought front and center the other day now that with my Terminator setup I finally have all my gauges at eye level. I was cruising along and nearly missed my turn. So I braked really hard, and then made a tighter than 90* turn that also happened to be heavy downhill. That perfect storm caused my normally rock steady OP to dip precipitously down into the low single digits for a few nauseating heartbeats.

Between that and that Engine Masters episode where they made like 30HP just from better oil control, I can absolutely say thats the first thing I would change. So much so that I might pull the motor this winter.


Smaller things, I would have heli-coiled my threaded aluminum header bolt holes. I think I read that Edelbrock does this from the factory now. And I would have changed my throttle rod pedal assembly to a 68+ cable assembly. Gives more room and its probably safer.

[64speed]

6 speed

[Old Goat 67]

NO POLYEURATHANE BUSHINGS !!!!

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Old Goat 67

NO POLYEURATHANE BUSHINGS !!!!

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

[Hoodshaker]

I second the windage tray/crank scraper. The engine masters episode exposed this for me too. I hate needless parasitic loss. (not enough to pull the engine for though).

[punkin]

More recently rewire the engine compartment the last time the motor was out. This is at the top of the list for me this time go round. Going with modern stuff like electric fans, water pump, fuel pumps and high output alternator...splicing in new stuff into the old wiring harness is a bet sketchy. American Auto Wire has an update kit that includes circuits for a lot of stuff like that. Also, the larger and higher quality battery cables and grounds. Also adding an external starter relay like the Ford guys have.

[Steve C.]

No offset intake rocker arms.

We built Edelbrock cylinder heads with a T&D shaft system using 0.170" offset intake rocker arms to relocate the pushrod hole. This in order to eliminate the pushrod bulge and relocated only enough for a straight shot down the port wall, not wide port heads. They were used on a 4.125" stroke build with the goal of 700 HP at or under 7000 rpm. Looking back, it was not necessary to do so in order to meet the goal.

After that 700 HP build I used these cylinder heads on my current street only 505 engine. With these offset rockers I can only use a solid roller lifter. But for interest only I would like to try a hydraulic roller cam. But I'm stuck with what I have !


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[Dragncar]

When I originally built my 455 sourcing all the parts in the 80s for another 300$ I could have had RAIV heads vs the HOs and should have spent 150$ more and got JE pistons vs TRWs. AND I bought new SD rods but by the time I had them shot peened and resized I had 1200$ into PMD stuff and could have had Crower billets.
The 461 I am doing right now is not being spared much expense. Just bought a 200$ teflon crank scrapper to go with Steffs pan that has big kickout. About the only thing I could improve on is shaft rockers vs Norris SS with stud girdle and .032 rings vs the 1/16 rings I am running. But even the 1/16 rings are trick. Gas ported on top, back cut to relieve tension and ring spacers behind them. Aluminum rods might be nice since I am pushing the limits of the block but the Molnar rods are fine. Trying to find a K&P dealer right now for one of their oil filters.
All the ducks are in a row on this one. I expect a very good result.
Might even dyno (engine) it but finding a shop where I live is a issue. There is one 2 1/2 hours away but he has never had a Pontiac on his pump. Not sure if I want to deal with making it work.
Any shops in the Sacramento area, maybe Medford also ?

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by punkin

More recently rewire the engine compartment the last time the motor was out. This is at the top of the list for me this time go round. Going with modern stuff like electric fans, water pump, fuel pumps and high output alternator...splicing in new stuff into the old wiring harness is a bet sketchy. American Auto Wire has an update kit that includes circuits for a lot of stuff like that. Also, the larger and higher quality battery cables and grounds. Also adding an external starter relay like the Ford guys have.

I took a bit of a half measure with that. I had just the engine harness and taillight harness made from scratch for my from AAW. Its especially nice on the engine side because you can have them customize it for an HEI, preffered transmission, internal regulator alternator etc.

Plugs right into the factory fuse box, but I didnt replace the under dash harness. So you could make the case that while I cleaned up my engine and light wiring, I left the biggest fire hazard in place.

[grivera]

Same with oil pan for me

And, I would have used the original SD Old Faithful cam with Torker II intake rather than the Stump Puller with RPM intake

At this stage in the game I won't be making any of these changes...

[64speed]

Originally Posted by grivera

Same with oil pan for me

And, I would have used the original SD Old Faithful cam with Torker II intake rather than the Stump Puller with RPM intake

At this stage in the game I won't be making any of these changes...

I got lucky with the oil pan. I used the Canton road race pan that is no longer available and I got it for a good price. I have the part number 15-450, it doesnt show on Summit or the Canton site as available last time I looked for a friend. It has trap doors etc. but its not overly bulky or anything like that. Holds 6 quarts. And I got the matching windage tray.

[i82much]

I would have listened to Bubbles and spent the money on ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P13dfEKK6_Y

[ta man]

I know for myself , much of the "what I would do different?" was all learning experience. Maybe not listening to experience..bit me in the butt a few times but other than that I don't regret much. Even though at times its can be totally frustrating and seems like you go backwards..( my story for the last 2 years) its rewarding.

[tom s]

As this is in the street section if I had that issue I would just put a factory windage tray in.At street RPMs off idle to 3000 I have not worried about it or would worry about it.JMHO,Tom

[72projectbird]

Originally Posted by i82much

I would have listened to Bubbles and spent the money on ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P13dfEKK6_Y

Money well spent Bubs!

As for what I would change: Bigger cam, better converter, different heads. It's never enough.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by tom s

As this is in the street section if I had that issue I would just put a factory windage tray in.At street RPMs off idle to 3000 I have not worried about it or would worry about it.JMHO,Tom

I had planned to do just that initially, but got scared away with dudes telling me horror stories about the 50 year old windage trays breaking. I have one of the 3/4 length trays.

I get that it “probably” isn’t a big deal, but my engine wasn’t cheap anyway. An extra $250 to buy the 1st Gen road race pan would have been a good move in retrospect.

Plus it would be cool to go to a road course track day some time. I wouldn’t do that with what I have now.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Cliff recommended just using a baffled Moroso oil pan. No windage tray, no crank scraper, either.....

[dmac]

I would simply spend a few dollars more to send the block and stroker kit to a shop that worked with lots of pontiacs.

The local shop didn't zero deck the block like I asked, and told me I could just get thinner gaskets. He left pistons at .030 in the hole, meaning I need a gasket around .020 thick to optimize quench. After reading about the finer surface thinner gaskets need, and the other issues and cost with super thin gaskets, I feel like completely disassembling and taking about .025 of the deck is my best option. And the shops lack of listening to my ask to zero deck has me wondering about other aspects of the work. My trust in that shop is shot, and I don't want to take it back there for correction. Machinist assumed gasket availability and cost of parts like chevy parts.

Block has been sitting for almost 2 years now, waiting on the extra funds it will take to correct the deck and verify all other aspects of the shop's work. And now I don't have my truck, making transport more costly to the shop I intend to use 100 miles away.

[tom s]

The engine in my garage that was planned for the track does have a canton first gen pan.My street engine all have stock pans.Tom

[Steve C.]

A fwiw, regarding the 15-450 Pontiac Shallow Road Race Pan.

From Canton site:

" It has a 7" deep, 10-1/2" long sump for a 6 quart system capacity "

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com...ct-description

With that statement Canton figures 5 quarts in the pan sump itself then they factor in 1 quart for the oil filter for a total of 6 quart "system" capacity. This was what I was told by Canton Tech when I called. That said, others report different.


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