[PHILLYGOAT]

Man, I hate it when I deal with incompetence or just outright liars!
I took the wifes' 85 Marquis to BIG O Tires to get it aligned after switching to 16" rims, firmer and taller springs, 1.25" swaybar, and new struts.
I had eyeballed everything and saw it needed additional travel for the caster/camber to be set, so I Dremeled additional slots and set it so it looked and drove OK. It really drove nice and corners WAY better. Very easy to crank the wheel and bounce the passengers head on the windows! I ask the guy if there will be any problem aligning it due to the mods and he tells me the alignment guy is really good and it will be "no problem". After it is put on the rack the guy tells me the spring clamps( needed till I get the V8 in it) are not the ideal setup. I tell him I know and the reason why they are in there. When I go to pay for it($52) and compare the before and after setting, the only difference is the toe was changed .19 and all the settings were within specs even before the "alignment". I see a note were the alignment guy said he would not adjust the camber/caster due to the mods. I ask why he didn't try to set them to the ideal setting. "There is no ideal setting, if it is anywhere within the factory setting range that it is fine. I've been doing this for 6yrs and am not going to argue with you.) So I ask why he changed the toe wich was within factory specs to begin with. "So the tires wouldn't wear" !!!!! DUH!!!!!!. I ask for my money back, then the manager gives me the exact same story about no preferred or ideal settings.I got my money back and will never go there again. Please tell me if I am the jerk as I am not a "professional mechanic" and have never even done an alignment except with a tape measure, string and some common sense!
Sorry for the rant, but I obviously needed to vent.
PHILLYGOAT

http://ourworld.cs.com/GOAT490/myhomepage/auto.html
Why couldn't I remain content with a reliable 12sec streetcar ?

[PHILLYGOAT]

Man, I hate it when I deal with incompetence or just outright liars!
I took the wifes' 85 Marquis to BIG O Tires to get it aligned after switching to 16" rims, firmer and taller springs, 1.25" swaybar, and new struts.
I had eyeballed everything and saw it needed additional travel for the caster/camber to be set, so I Dremeled additional slots and set it so it looked and drove OK. It really drove nice and corners WAY better. Very easy to crank the wheel and bounce the passengers head on the windows! I ask the guy if there will be any problem aligning it due to the mods and he tells me the alignment guy is really good and it will be "no problem". After it is put on the rack the guy tells me the spring clamps( needed till I get the V8 in it) are not the ideal setup. I tell him I know and the reason why they are in there. When I go to pay for it($52) and compare the before and after setting, the only difference is the toe was changed .19 and all the settings were within specs even before the "alignment". I see a note were the alignment guy said he would not adjust the camber/caster due to the mods. I ask why he didn't try to set them to the ideal setting. "There is no ideal setting, if it is anywhere within the factory setting range that it is fine. I've been doing this for 6yrs and am not going to argue with you.) So I ask why he changed the toe wich was within factory specs to begin with. "So the tires wouldn't wear" !!!!! DUH!!!!!!. I ask for my money back, then the manager gives me the exact same story about no preferred or ideal settings.I got my money back and will never go there again. Please tell me if I am the jerk as I am not a "professional mechanic" and have never even done an alignment except with a tape measure, string and some common sense!
Sorry for the rant, but I obviously needed to vent.
PHILLYGOAT

http://ourworld.cs.com/GOAT490/myhomepage/auto.html
Why couldn't I remain content with a reliable 12sec streetcar ?

[TigerClaw]

I worked at sears for 5 years in the auto department. If some one comes in and the specs were good, we just checked ever thing and didnt charge the cust. If the cust had made some spring mods we would put on the ticked what they did and if it was out align. This way if somthing did happen to the car it was on file and we could not be help for it if u know what i mean. Anywas if you were in specs the guys should not charge you. just my .02

[carzan]

I would suggest that another time you provide them with the specs you what it aligned to. Never hurts to discuss to pros and cons with them, reasoning behind why you chose the specs you want. Otherwise to them its just an alignment (stock settings).

The only time I didn't get what I wanted was because there just wasn't enough adjustment. Once my vehicle was so low to the ground there equipment couldn't do the caster as I recall (head units couldn't see each other).

Amasing how well we can do with a piece of string.

[Hot Rod]

I have been doing alignments for over 30 years, and as what was suggested above you need to give the tech the specs you wanted to set it to....

I am interested to know what the actual specs are on the car now...

The spring change and tire change should not effect the caster reading what so ever, only the camber and toe should change..... {SAI} also should stay the same {Steering Axis Inclination}

The service advisor should have advised you that this was a custom alignment and made the tech aware that you were looking to inhance the handling of the vehicle....

If this tech was that good of an alignment technician it should not have been a problem...

I teach alignment and suspension and Northern Virginia Community College and I average 27 students a class and only about 10 of them really get it... The rest understand it but cannot apply it to doing the job...

Also if the vehicle was already in spec my guys would come to me and tell me that the vehicle was in spec and we do charge for our time $29.50 for a check out only..... And if only the toe was adjusted that is what the charge would be....

Just be specific on what you want and any tech worth a grain of salt will take care of you...

Rodney

Outlaw Pontiac Racers Association
"For Those Who Live the Legend"

"WELCOME TO THE NO SPIN ZONE!"

[trigger]

many shops are hesitant to set alignment to anything but factory spec, as they could have a nasty liability suit on their hands if you crash.

Tell the shop owner what you want, offer to pay CASH, and tell him you don't really need a receipt.

1981 Trans Am, 462ci/4sp
1995 Formula
1963 Bonnie (for sale)

[PHILLYGOAT]

I have been taking a quick survey of alignment shops and so far have come up with this info. Prices range from $39 to $55. Cost of alignment does NOT determine what you get. Most shops feel if the specs are anywhere within the range they are OK and will make no changes or at the most dial in the toe a little. A couple of the shops admitted that there were indeed "ideal" settings within the range but didn't bother to try for these. Two of the six shops would try to set them as close as possible to the "ideal" setting(WITHOUT being told to by the customer!). One of these was at the lower $39 price! These were all thrust angle alignments.One shop said if the engine/suspension cradle needed to be tweaked, it could be done for an additional labor charge of $50/hr. Thes shops were comprised of tire stores, dealers,muffler shops, and plain old auto mechanics.

http://ourworld.cs.com/GOAT490/myhomepage/auto.html
Why couldn't I remain content with a reliable 12sec streetcar ?

[WallyB]

I agree with Rodney in principle, if you take a mechanics time, even with no changes, there should be min. charge for piece of mind & tying up the equip. - if that happened with every customer that day - no income - would you go to work one day and accept no pay, just because? also why should anyoneone stick there necks out for $50 or less on custom settings?

Wally