[nmoreilly]

A friend has quite generously offered to give me a set og 8 lug wheels for my "new" 66 Bonneveille. He has stated that we will need to be refinished. I have read a numebr of the posts regarding the issues with these wheels, lack of resources etc. Can someone please offer some advice on what I need to do make sure these wheels are correctly restored and streetable.

Thanks in advance,

Noel

[stucky2947]

If they are truely restored, you will have about 3/8" of liner. If the liner is below 1/4" there isn't much life left on them. Also, look for corrosion between the liner and the drum. Take a look at this website, they have new ones for a price that isn't too outrageous. http://www.bopengineering.com

Here is another one. http://www.arrowheadcomponentsinc.com

Also, getting the old ones turned will be a challenge. You need a special holding fixture to get them turned and balanced. ( you can find them on eBay). Not many shops have the old bubble balancers.

Good luck!!

[Stuart]

Here is a good source of information: http://www.teufert.net/pontiac/8lug/8lug.htm There are several pages, at the bottom click on Next Page. The guy who wrote this information used to reline 8 lug drums, but he passed away several years ago.

If the cast iron liners still have enough meat on them and there isn't a lot of corrosion between the liner and the aluminum (look for a white buildup along the edges), get the aluminum part glass beaded, paint them black and then polish off the edges of the fins with a fine sanding block or a flat file. Turning the drums isn't that big a deal, although you may have to search a little to find a brake shop that can fit them on their brake lathe. The special fixture mentioned above is for balancing the rims after new tires have been installed.

Also, make sure they're the right year for your car - 1964 and earlier front drums are narrower so they won't work on your 1966.

[PITTSBURGH 64]

Noel take them to a good machine shop and have them trued up so long as they are not too thin.
At one time Roger at Custom Circuits did a good job of relining then his business slid downhill, quality went out the window and then he passed away.

If you plan on driving a lot it might be best to look into a Scarebird disc brake swap. That's what I ended up doing. I miss the looks of the 8 lugs though.

[64catdroptop]

Joel,

I have a set of the 8 lug reproductions from John (Arrowhead Components) and they are a beautiful reproduction. Something to consider if the 8 lugs aren't in good condition that your are going to acquire.

Additionally, and I'm sure someone will supplement, but the early (pre-63)drum are different from the 63-64 and the later 65-68 drums. I'm not sure what the difference is or if they all fit the 8 lug years.

Ron

[Blackcat]

The differences is in the legnth of the fins on the drums. If you have had a bunch you will see.

[ken66]

I think the link posted by Stuart highlights the differences. I always look for the casting number. The rears 63 - 68 have the same casting number (49313) and should interchange. The fronts were made wider for 65, so that 65-68 interchange (casting 58154).

[nmoreilly]

Guys,

I cant tell you how much help this has been. Just to sumarize, the key issue is to look for corrosion between iron liner and aluminium cylinder. If this looks reasonable, get them turned by someone who can do the job. What ahppens in the case of corrosion between liner and cylinder? Are the prices for the BOP wheels inclusive of cylinders are are they just the rims?

Thanks again

[wheelspin]

Noel, Welcome to the Forums.

It's VERY likely that your newly acquired drums have suffered from corrosion, as it is not a climate or useage problem, but a byproduct of heat cycling w/ normal use. Knowing that, I sanded the surface rust out of the inside of my used drums, installed new bearings and seals, and have been using them for 3 years, declining to turn them and lose more lining thickness.

Downside: a hard stop from above 60mph produces a shudder @ the brake pedal, from the high spots caused by corrosion between the drums and the liners. My drums have suffcient margin for turning, but this high spot condition would quickly return for the reasons stated above.

Even w/ the high speed shudder condition, the 8 lugs stop fast and straight, and are w/o question the most beautiful wheels for a big Pontiac .

Les

[Dick Boneske]

Problem is, you cannot see between the cast iron liner and aluminum drum. There is always some corrosion visible on the edge of the drum where you can see both the cast iron and aluminum. I don't think there is a way to prevent water from getting between the cast iron and aluminum. Add a little water to dissimilar metals, and corrosion is inevitable.

As some have already stated, if the liner is thicker than 1/4", these may work OK. The thinner the liner, the more prone they are to developing bumps that cause annoying shudder at best and violent shudder at worst making the car undriveable.

[Ziggy]

Noel:

I'll add my .02.

As indicated earlier, some 8-lug drums may have corrosion which exists between the metals. Corrosion is initiated because disimilar metals have different coefficients of expansion when heated/cooled - thus, allowing a gap between the metals which in turn allows mositure in and it is trapped. As indicated above, moisture and disimilar metals "do not get along very well". The drum is aluminum and the inner liner is steel and normally held in place with pressure and with reverse internal locking bars that were part of the liner and embedded and cast into the aluminum drum casting. The repeated expansion and contraction along with moisture will produce corrosion internally and hence you could develop a "high spot" on a "thin" steel liner and no matter how many times you try to machine the steel liner smooth, the high spot may come back. Then due to safety, the thin steel liner needs to be replaced.

Roger Riehl used to reline these 8-lugs on the side. But, he passed a few years ago. Roger was "a scientist" and he had developed a process and had a patent on the epoxy used to secure the liner to the alum hub which would (as he put it) eliminate any chance of moisture getting in-between the two dissimilar metals. As he progressed in age, his quality went down - possibly due to attention to subcontractor fault as he tried to maintain his primary interest - digital watches. 8-lugs became secondary to him. He had many patents on digital watches and was instrumental in the development of them. But, hey....where do the Buick guys go to get their's drums relined?

And, sometimes you may see corrosion on the edge between the steel liner and alum drum. This could be due to two different reasons (1) due to pressure, the internal corrosion can grow to the edge where the two different materials meet and you can clearly see it "trying to escape" or, (2) you have corrosion which initiates in a gap that potentially exists at that edge. The Pontiac Engineers tried to prevent moisture from entering the drum when "driving in the rain" with extended "dust" shields on the drum but, moisture easily enters the brake drum when you drove through a deep puddle.

Where in NY are you located? In May/June I may be in NJ and then will drive up to the NY Capital region. If your location is along the way, I can offer to stop with some gauges and we can try to figure out what shape your aluminum drums and steel rims are in. And, I can show you the differences in the years and offer to you some ways to effectively balance them.

Also, BOP Engineering only offers the rims - not, the drums. You will also need trim rings, center caps and lug nuts for your assembly too. The original 8-lug rims were 14". BOP offers 15". The original 14" trim rings will not fit the new BOP 15" rims.

And, as indicated above, when in good working condition, the 8 lugs were engineered to stop fast and straight, and are w/o question, IMHO, the most beautiful wheels for a big Pontiacs. I have them on both of my cars and have experienced very little problems.

[nmoreilly]

I got the 8 lug wheels from my friend. They include drums, correct rims, correct trim rings, correct caps and correct lug nuts (ie correct for 66 Bonneville). The fromt drums are also the correct 65-68 "wider" 58154's that will work on a 66 Bonneville. One of the rear drums has thinner fins than the other (?) The liners appear to have enough thickness to work with. However, I did notice a small crack in one of the front drums (just behind the liner) that seems to have caused the liner to partially separate from the drum.

Any thoughts on what the best course of action here is on 1) the front drum with the crack and 2) matching the rear drums (ie thinner vs thicker fins)? Will any of the vendors take the old drums in partial exchange?

Thanks,

Noel

[Deadhead]

I have 2 original sets on '66 cars that both work well. One set has at least one drum with heat checking & will shudder some, but not too bad.

I would get the repro drums & use all the other parts you have. All the rims & trimmings are worth a ton of $, & with the issues you have with the ones you have got, it could easily be more $, time & aggravation than it is worth to get it all straight compared to buying Poncho Pio's new ones. If they are not all available yet for the '66, it will be well worth waiting for to avoid all the potential complications.

Sell the good ones you have to help defray cost of new & clean up your original parts while you wait. That would be my strategy for 8-lug bliss.

[lust4speed]

Yep, corrosion doesn't stop - like rust. I trued up the liners twice on my 8-lugs and the problem just returns. They are fine for a couple of months after the machine work and then slowly become out of round again - and I'm in good old dry SoCal. I'd go with the new fronts and avoid all the problems with the old ones.

We had a rear drum that was still in spec for diameter, but the corrosion had pushed the liner inward and truing it made it thin in one area. This thin area then broke out and destroyed the internals when the shoe caught the broken edge.

Are they talking about producing a rear set?

[68Prix]

I heard the rears are do out this summer. Been thinking about them for the old GP. Pat

[wfbarto]

Originally Posted by 68Prix

I heard the rears are do out this summer. Been thinking about them for the old GP. Pat

I corresponded with John (Poncho Pio) earlier this spring and he said he was hopeful that the rears might be available by August '08. Fingers-crossed! It would be great if they were available by Norwalk so I could pick a set up!

[clydester]

I fully agree with you guys that eight lugs are a must for any old big Pontiac. I've loved them since being in junior high in the early 60's and my dad retrofitted sets to a 59 Safari wagon and a 61 Bonnie ragtop.
I bought a full set in 1976 that I thought I'd use sometime. As it turned out, all my old Pontiacs already had them so.....I'm getting ready to put four rims, two rear drums, one front drum, four late model NOS centers and one early center (used but nice) on ebay within the next couple weeks. Keep an eye out if interested. Anyone care to guess what any of the stuff is worth????
I used one of the front drums on my 66 2+2 about ten years ago due to a cracked liner on the one that was on the car. Seeing as how the cracked drum is worth nothing, I've been trying to dream up some use for it. Maybe paint it red, like a Royal Bobcat, polish the fins, throw on a centercap and lug nuts.....a nice ornament but too big for a door stop. Any ideas??????

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by clydester

... Seeing as how the cracked drum is worth nothing, I've been trying to dream up some use for it. Maybe paint it red, like a Royal Bobcat, polish the fins, throw on a centercap and lug nuts.....a nice ornament but too big for a door stop. Any ideas??????

A plant stand? A nice base for that special highway sign?

I'd probably just paint it as you say (only Nocturne blue) and mount it to the wall. Or maybe turn it into a clock...

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by clydester

I fully agree with you guys that eight lugs are a must for any old big Pontiac. I've loved them since being in junior high in the early 60's and my dad retrofitted sets to a 59 Safari wagon and a 61 Bonnie ragtop.
I bought a full set in 1976 that I thought I'd use sometime. As it turned out, all my old Pontiacs already had them so.....I'm getting ready to put four rims, two rear drums, one front drum, four late model NOS centers and one early center (used but nice) on ebay within the next couple weeks. Keep an eye out if interested. Anyone care to guess what any of the stuff is worth????
I used one of the front drums on my 66 2+2 about ten years ago due to a cracked liner on the one that was on the car. Seeing as how the cracked drum is worth nothing, I've been trying to dream up some use for it. Maybe paint it red, like a Royal Bobcat, polish the fins, throw on a centercap and lug nuts.....a nice ornament but too big for a door stop. Any ideas??????

Yeah. Put a rim on it and use it as the coolest hose hanger ever! That is my plan for mine with the torn up interior fins.

[Deadhead]

Originally Posted by clydester

I fully agree with you guys that eight lugs are a must for any old big Pontiac. I've loved them since being in junior high in the early 60's and my dad retrofitted sets to a 59 Safari wagon and a 61 Bonnie ragtop.
I bought a full set in 1976 that I thought I'd use sometime. As it turned out, all my old Pontiacs already had them so.....I'm getting ready to put four rims, two rear drums, one front drum, four late model NOS centers and one early center (used but nice) on ebay within the next couple weeks. Keep an eye out if interested. Anyone care to guess what any of the stuff is worth????
I used one of the front drums on my 66 2+2 about ten years ago due to a cracked liner on the one that was on the car. Seeing as how the cracked drum is worth nothing, I've been trying to dream up some use for it. Maybe paint it red, like a Royal Bobcat, polish the fins, throw on a centercap and lug nuts.....a nice ornament but too big for a door stop. Any ideas??????

Yeah. Put a rim on it and use it as the coolest hose hanger ever! That is my plan for mine with the torn up interior fins.