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#21
02-17-2009, 08:58 PM
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Thanks Cliff.
Charles
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68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, E-head, Solid roller 3650 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick. Best so far 10.12@133 mph. 1.43 60 ft. 76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend, 468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh. |
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#22
02-17-2009, 09:02 PM
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The square flange model will accept a Holley or an AFB with the one bolt pattern. The other bolt pattern is for the early Rochester carbs as well as allowing an adapter plate for a Q-jet to bolt straight through.
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"Three may keep a secret, if two are dead" ~ Benjamin Franklin ~ |
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#23
02-18-2009, 09:36 AM
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Will a q-jet fit on this one?
Thanks Charles
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68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, E-head, Solid roller 3650 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick. Best so far 10.12@133 mph. 1.43 60 ft. 76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend, 468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh. Last edited by chuckies76ta; 07-21-2011 at 06:26 AM. |
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#24
02-18-2009, 09:47 AM
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Yes, the "keyhole" shaped openings are extra large in the rear of the intake in order to accomadate the Q-jet's secondaries.
Les
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Les Iden ---------------------------- '65 Buick Sport Wagon Custom, 340, T350, 3:23 '66 GTO Post/468, 700R4, 3.31 (Mike's as of 9-16) '68 Grand Prix/455, dual AFBs, T400, 2:93 posi (sold) '72 TA tribute/461, T400, 3.08, (Russ's as of 9-16) '97 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder Turbo, Konis, 5 speed '09 Torrent GXP, nav, Sun & Sound pkg., Bilsteins |
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#25
02-18-2009, 07:10 PM
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Thanks Les.
Charles
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68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, E-head, Solid roller 3650 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick. Best so far 10.12@133 mph. 1.43 60 ft. 76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend, 468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh. |
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#26
02-19-2009, 04:21 PM
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Measurements
Cliff (or anyone), have you taken any measurements of the runner opening at the plenum? Just wondering, right off the bat, if this manifold has larger/smaller opening (cross sectional area wise) from the plenum into the runner as compared to the 68-72 iron unit.......
What is your hypothesis Cliff? |
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#27
02-19-2009, 05:21 PM
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I'll be watch'n for the results.
Never cared for that sharp bend in the upper passenger side runners. And thier not as tall at the rear as factory intakes. Although thier runner casting is alot cleaner. Wonder how well a Pontiac intake would work if the front was as high as the rear with the stock runner size. If i could weld iron good....
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If you cant drive from gas pump to gas pump across the map, its not a street car. http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/b...hop/?start=100 |
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#28
02-19-2009, 10:36 PM
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I have used these intakes years ago, as Edelbrock made near identical units for SBC engines, and B and RB Mopar engines.
At the track the Mopar version was the best intake I ever ran on our 440 powered Roadrunner, running quicker ET and more MPH than a stock iron intake. On our 1965 SBC powered Chevy II, it also delivered the best numbers at the track compared to a stock iron intake, and a later style Performer intake. Even so, none of that testing was back to back, but in the years I owned and raced those cars, a variety of intakes and carburetors were tested, and the very best runs were from the early P4B style intakes with the wide plenum/runners. For some reason, this intake evolved into the Pontiac and SBC narrow/taller runner Performer intake, focusing on taller/narrower runners and less overall plenum and port volume......Cliff
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
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#29
02-20-2009, 01:55 AM
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I have never heard a real good thing about the P4B and see them go for $50-$60 max. As far as I know, they were the predicessors of the performer but the performer had some upgrades that made the perform better. I dont really care for the performer either as I have always had better luck with the SD or the RPM or the TorkerII
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#30
02-20-2009, 02:04 PM
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I haven't ever seen a test on a P4B, so it will be interesting to see what Cliff finds out trying one with his combo.
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#31
02-20-2009, 04:33 PM
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It always made me wonder, since the Mopar guys and the Buick guys prefer the B4B and the mopar version over stock and other intakes. For a long time the Buick guys paid a premium for used B4B even though it moves the carb around and messes with the factory stage1 hood. Edelbrock now reproduces the B4B along side the performer because of demand.
Carcraft or Hotrod did a big intake comparison awhile back and the old 4B intake performed better than the performer as well as many others. Did we get the only bum 4b intake..? It's possible! The factory intake is a ringer! Didn't it start off from a nascar design from the early SD? |
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#32
02-25-2009, 09:15 AM
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The intake finally showed up yesterday. I did some measuring with it, the plenum area under the carburetor is a full 1" wider than the square flange early P4B. 3/4" of that is on the drivers side only, making it at least as wide under the carburetor as an iron intake.
It appears that Edelbrock was re-designing this intake thru the years of production. At some point they went smaller with the runners and made a Performer, then taller/narrower and came up with the RPM. I measured the P4B-QJ intake and it is larger than an iron intake in the runners, although they did this with really wide ports. The ports are not only wider, but the turns are smoother than an iron intake. It appears to provide a better shot at the head with the #8 port, which is the most restrictive on the iron intake. Time permitting I'll cc the entire intake and compare it to our ported iron one. Pretty busy in the shop currently, but hope to port it this weekend and get it in place for some testing......Cliff
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
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#33
02-25-2009, 12:49 PM
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Awesome cliff!!! I am watching your post on this as now i have the RPM on mine... pretty close to same combos we have soo...
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Darby 74 Grandville 2Dr 455 c.i 4550# 2011 1.60 60 ft,7.33@94.55-11.502@117.74  2017, 74 firebird -3600 lbs (all bests) 1.33 60 ft, 6.314@108.39 9.950@134.32 M/T 275/60 ET SS Drag Radial 2023,(Pontiac 505) 1.27 60 ft, 5.97@112.86, 9.48@139.31.... 275/60 Radial Pro's |
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#34
02-25-2009, 05:30 PM
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Sounds better then the early 4150 model i converted to q-jet with an adapter.
Been under the bench since the 80's, lol.
__________________
If you cant drive from gas pump to gas pump across the map, its not a street car. http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/b...hop/?start=100 |
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#35
03-08-2009, 10:27 PM
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Finally got around to getting the intake ready, and took some pics of the progress, and comparisons to our iron intake....Cliff
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
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#36
03-08-2009, 10:31 PM
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And a couple more pics.
Interesting that the P4B measures larger everyplace than the iron intake, even depth to the runner floors down from the carb mounting flange.....Cliff
__________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
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#37
03-09-2009, 07:37 AM
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Great pics Cliff.
Thanks Charles
__________________
68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, E-head, Solid roller 3650 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick. Best so far 10.12@133 mph. 1.43 60 ft. 76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend, 468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh. |
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#38
03-09-2009, 07:40 AM
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How hard is it to find the Q-jet version? Anyone have one?
Thanks Charles
__________________
68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, E-head, Solid roller 3650 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick. Best so far 10.12@133 mph. 1.43 60 ft. 76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend, 468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh. Last edited by chuckies76ta; 07-21-2011 at 06:26 AM. |
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#39
03-09-2009, 08:25 AM
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Charles I am sure we will all be looking if this works for cliff!!!
__________________
Darby 74 Grandville 2Dr 455 c.i 4550# 2011 1.60 60 ft,7.33@94.55-11.502@117.74 2017, 74 firebird -3600 lbs (all bests) 1.33 60 ft, 6.314@108.39 9.950@134.32 M/T 275/60 ET SS Drag Radial 2023,(Pontiac 505) 1.27 60 ft, 5.97@112.86, 9.48@139.31.... 275/60 Radial Pro's |
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#40
03-09-2009, 08:36 AM
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lol, Ya that's my thoughts. I actually had one ready to buy, but plans changed and had to let it go.. I like the QJ version.
Charles
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68 Firebird. IA2 block, 505 cu in, E-head, Solid roller 3650 weight. Reid TH400 4:11 gear. 29" slick. Best so far 10.12@133 mph. 1.43 60 ft. 76 Trans am, TKX .81 o/d, 3.73 Moser rearend, 468 with KRE D-ports, Doug headers, 3" Exh. |
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