[jimmo]

Originally Posted by russosborne

Are the pictures from today with the idler pulley relocated?

You are making it really hard for me to concentrate on replacing floor panels like I need to instead of working on the belt system.

It is really good of you to post all this stuff.

Russ

No, in post # 63 I posted a short video of a mock up using an orange tie down in place of a belt just to show a possible routing. This vid shows the idler down between the water pump and crank but it was only for the mock up. My idler is is exactly where the pics depict.

[jimmo]

Originally Posted by russosborne

Maybe a dumb idea, but for those of us without access to someone able to bore out the crank pulley, would it be possible to bolt the old and new pulleys together (back to back) after drilling out the four new mounting holes, and use something like a dremel or something (die grinder? not sure of the name) to open up the new pulley's center opening to match the original?

Thanks,
Russ

If ya scroll down on this thread, this guy claims to have done it with a dremel. If I didnt have a machine I probably would try it. My advice is to buy the pulleys cheap in the junkyard so if you waste one or two its no big deal.

http://gbodyforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=171888

[Ollie]

Originally Posted by jimmo

If ya scroll down on this thread, this guy claims to have done it with a dremel. If I didnt have a machine I probably would try it. My advice is to buy the pulleys cheap in the junkyard so if you waste one or two its no big deal.

http://gbodyforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=171888

The only problem I see with that set up with out a belt tension pulley, is the belt contact on the water pump and alternator

[JC455]

I would like to nominate this thread for "Post of the Year!"
This is AWESOME!! Thanks for sharing!

[russosborne]

Originally Posted by jimmo

If ya scroll down on this thread, this guy claims to have done it with a dremel. If I didnt have a machine I probably would try it. My advice is to buy the pulleys cheap in the junkyard so if you waste one or two its no big deal.

http://gbodyforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=171888

That's funny. That was one of the online setups I found in the past. I was thinking about doing it his way until you posted your setup. Yours is much better.

Thanks,
Russ

[jimmo]

Thanks guys!
Yea, there isnt much detail on the system without the idler. I am curious as to how he used a gm alternator pulley. I can only assume that his alternator has a longer shaft because in order to line it up on my system there were no threads showing to install the alternator nut. Thats why I had to go with the VW one. As you can see in the pics it has a built in offset and I still needed a lil spacing.
He claims he's run it for a couple years with no noise or issues so that is pretty reassuring.

[JC455]

Mods- can we get a sticky on this?

[BigB]

Originally Posted by JC455

Mods- can we get a sticky on this?

X100

[hgerhardt]

Originally Posted by jimmo

Thanks guys!
... I am curious as to how he used a gm alternator pulley. I can only assume that his alternator has a longer shaft because in order to line it up on my system there were no threads showing to install the alternator nut. Thats why I had to go with the VW one. As you can see in the pics it has a built in offset and I still needed a lil spacing.
He claims he's run it for a couple years with no noise or issues so that is pretty reassuring.

How about just using a CS-144 alternator? They interchange on the stock Pontiac brackets and come with a serpentine pulley. I have a CS-144 on my '66 GTO and retrofitted a Vee pulley. Still have that serpentine pulley somewhere... need to look at it. As I recall, it has the same offset as the Vee pulley I used, which came from an early 80's FWD GM car. CS-144's came on all LT1's, Cadillac Northstars, and others and seem to be one of the more durable alternators GM made. Here's a pic of my '66 showing the CS-144:

[jimmo]

Originally Posted by hgerhardt

How about just using a CS-144 alternator? They interchange on the stock Pontiac brackets and come with a serpentine pulley. I have a CS-144 on my '66 GTO and retrofitted a Vee pulley. Still have that serpentine pulley somewhere... need to look at it. As I recall, it has the same offset as the Vee pulley I used, which came from an early 80's FWD GM car. CS-144's came on all LT1's, Cadillac Northstars, and others and seem to be one of the more durable alternators GM made. Here's a pic of my '66 showing the CS-144:

That, might work. Definitely a nice option if it does. I never looked into changing the alt entirely as I wasnt in the market for a new one. I wanted to retain as much of the stock components and brackets as possible, just to keep it inexpensive. When all was said and done, all of the parts I used totaled to about $70. including the belt. Shipping runs about $15. for the aluminum and $5 for the spacers so that puts ya at $90 total. I didnt need to purchase those I had em laying around.
If ya dont mind, can ya measure the distance from the face of the housing to the tip of the shaft. With that I can guestimate if it would fit well. This could help anyone who is thinking of changing the alt anyway. Next time im in the junkyard I will take a look at those.

Oh, on another note, I since put about 20 miles around town on the car. Ran it up to nearly 6000 rpms a few times and everything seems great so far. Im even spinning that dreadful flex fan until I get a new clutch fan.

[hgerhardt]

Originally Posted by jimmo

That, might work. Definitely a nice option if it does.

Don't see why not. See pics below.

Originally Posted by jimmo

If ya dont mind, can ya measure the distance from the face of the housing to the tip of the shaft.

OK, lucky for you it's my day off... As you can see below, the offsets and shaft lengths of old vs. new alternators are interchangeable. Here's a 10DN and a CS130. The multi-groove pulley is actually from the CS144 that's installed in my GTO. See my earlier photo above. The height of the shaft step where the pulley sits against is within 1/16" on both alternators, well within belt alignment tolerances.















As you can see, you need an extra washer on the 10DN due to its .070" longer shaft:



This shows that the pulleys are interchangeable:













And finally, here's the original pulley setup of each alternator:

[jimmo]

[QUOTE=hgerhardt;4580633]Don't see why not. See pics below.



OK, lucky for you it's my day off... As you can see below, the offsets and shaft lengths of old vs. new alternators are interchangeable. Here's a 10DN and a CS130. The multi-groove pulley is actually from the CS144 that's installed in my GTO. See my earlier photo above. The height of the shaft step where the pulley sits against is within 1/16" on both alternators, well within belt alignment tolerances.





Wow, lots of detail here thanks. In this photo you show where the edge of the belt will ride and it appears to be about 3/4" away from the face of the alternator. In order to line up with the power steering it needs to be about 1/2" further out at 1-1/4. Thats how far the edge of the belt is from the face of the alt in my set up. I happen to have that same pulley and tried it. Its just too shallow. The VW pulley is kind of like a deep well where the nut is way inside the hole.
Im not working sunday, I will take some pics to show ya what I mean. Its kind of hard to explain it.
The only other way I saw was to modify the alternator itself or the brackets but then buying parts would be a nightmare.

[hgerhardt]

OK, I understand the problem now. I found a GM pulley that has a 13mm offset: http://www.amb2b.com/product/detail/310096/Pulley.html Have no idea what the original application was, though.

That might be enough... but, is there any issue with just using the VW pulley that you have now?

BTW, were there ever any GM cars that had a serpentine belt system with a standard-rotation water pump?

[FrankieT/A]

What's the wiring trick going to the 10DN?

[hgerhardt]

Originally Posted by FrankieT/A

What's the wiring trick going to the 10DN?

The 10DN is the "original" GM alternator with external regulator starting in the early 60's and was used until the 10SI (with internal regulator) took over in the early 70's.

[FrankieT/A]

Ok my mistake what's the wiring trick with CS 130? I would like to have the extra amperage since my car is fully loaded. Is it just an adaptor harness?

[jimmo]

Originally Posted by hgerhardt

OK, I understand the problem now. I found a GM pulley that has a 13mm offset: http://www.amb2b.com/product/detail/310096/Pulley.html Have no idea what the original application was, though.


That might be enough... but, is there any issue with just using the VW pulley that you have now?

BTW, were there ever any GM cars that had a serpentine belt system with a standard-rotation water pump?

That one might work it doesnt give the bore depth dimension though and that is the important measurement. I have a similar pulley but only 11mm offset and only about 3 threads are available for the nut to grab. Also the black one in your photos almost works but it would have to ride on the threaded part and not the shank in order to line up. I took some pics but dont know if I will have time to sort and post them til monday.
The VW pulley has been working great so far. I put anothe 85 highway miles on it and still looks great and sounds great. From what I ve learned in previous posts is that if I used a deep groove import belt that was designed for the VW it would slip on the other domestic shallow pulleys. I am using a shallow belt design for the domestic pulleys and it cant bottom out in the grooves.

Dont know the answer to gm using serp water pumps in the correct rotaion but maybe someone else can chime in. I only found them on a few fords in the junkyard and the one on the taurus is plastic

[Ollie]

Originally Posted by jimmo

Don't know the answer to gm using serp water pumps in the correct rotation but maybe someone else can chime in. I only found them on a few fords in the junkyard and the one on the taurus is plastic

At One time Tom Vaught was having some reverse rotation pumps made.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...verse+rotation
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...verse+rotation

[jimmo]

Originally Posted by Ollie

At One time Tom Vaught was having some reverse rotation pumps made.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...verse+rotation
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...verse+rotation

Are they available? I checked the website and found it difficult to navigate.
That would solve some issues.

[Ollie]

Originally Posted by jimmo

Are they available? I checked the website and found it difficult to navigate.
That would solve some issues.

Yeah, I found that too, Probably the best thing is to call them.
In one of his posts Tom Gave a contact name.
Found it, Steve Prestley at Evans Cooling.
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...ion+Water+Pump

Apparently Evans no longer sells direct to the public. Have to go to a dealer.