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#81
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Would it be possible to enlarge the chambers from 72 cc to maybe ~78- 80 on these? I'd like to wait until the 85 cc version comes out, but this price is making want to click on the 'buy now' button.
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#82
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He finally got it down to the "what the hell "price guess I'll get a set...
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1970 firebird, 468, e heads, |
#83
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#84
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Butler & SD price starts at around $2k for complete ported 6X heads. https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1234782 http://www.sdperformance.com/viewPro...?productID=583 Guessing that Len Williams could build you a set of unported 6X heads about as cheap as any of the well known Pontiac engine builders. Probably cheaper than most, since he uses 'em for 400 & 455 long block builds. http://lenwilliamsautomachine.com/400_Long_Block.html Probably machine shop guys here who have done some iron heads recently, who can provide details & prices. There are always rebuilt Pontiac heads for sale, here, on Ebay, & other places. But, most of the time you just don't know what kind of quality work you're getting. I found it almost impossible to sell my running 11 sec 455 bracket engine. Finally had to sell for a very small fraction of what it would cost to build one equal to it. Last edited by ponyakr; 12-02-2019 at 07:04 PM. |
#85
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Last edited by PAUL K; 12-02-2019 at 07:15 PM. |
#86
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#87
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$800-$1200 depending on parts.... In the Chicagoland area
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#88
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Thanks guys! That’s about what I thought it would be. I hope the Speedmaster’s turn out to be a good head.
I bought a pair of bare ones. I just thought I’d feel better with known quality valves & springs. Who knows? Murf Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
#89
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The guys building a pontiac that don't have a pontiac engine probably aren't doing a factory correct restoration. It may just be a fun build, or a pro-touring or drag car. How many of those guys will simply just go to an LS/LT? Kind of makes you wonder if there's even a market for such a block, at least at this time. The guys that want to, or need to make big power have a couple options. Everyone else can either use the block/s they have or may have easier access to.
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-Jason 1969 Pontiac Firebird |
#90
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Butler's iron head packages start at $1,995: https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1234782
Pontiac Cast Iron Cylinder Head BP ports more Pontiac cylinder heads than anyone in the world. After years of extensive R&D both on the flow bench and on our track, we have developed some of the best performing round port and D-port cast iron Pontiac cylinder heads ever. These heads can be ported for optimum performance on a 450 HP street engine or a 700+ HP racing engine, and everything in between. We have ported D-Port heads that run low tens in 3,700 lbs. stock suspension street GTO's to heads that run 8.50's in a 2,400 lbs. bracket car. We also specialize in porting RAII, RAIV, H.O. and S.D. round port heads. The port work includes fully ported intake and exhaust ports, de-burred chambers, pushrod holes elongated for 1.65 rockers, and removal of excess casting material in oil drain back areas. We can use your heads or we can provide cores. We keep most casting numbers in stock. (Core charges vary with casting numbers-call for availability.) A valve job is highly recommended after porting, even if your heads have been recently worked. BP can do the port work only or port work and valve job combination. Your heads will be completely built and returned ready to bolt on. All BP heads come with a blueprint sheet and flow chart. Performance Cast Iron D-Port Head Package 6X Heads (other numbers available) Milling optional / additional charge (let us know your desired compression ratio) Completely ported and polished (starting @ 240+ cfm) Competition 3 angle valve job done with our Serdi machine FULL bronze guides (not liners) Ferrea Stainless Steel valves Surfaced on all 3 sides Retainers & HD valve locks Tall dual springs New 5/16 guide plates 7/16 rocker arm studs HP valve seals Blue printed and assembled per application Comes with Blueprint and spec sheets. __________________
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears '64 LeMans 400/461, #16 Heads, HR 230/236, TKO600, 9inch Rear, 3.89 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: Non-running project |
#91
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A cheap aftermarket block would be really great. Here is why it's likely not going to happen. Where and how are you going to take half the cost out of it? Cast iron is cheap, cheap, cheap. So little savings there. Take 50 lbs. out of the casting, save $50.00? Core cost would remain the same, core box cost would remain the same. Lower the quality of the iron, save another $50.00? Use cast iron caps and crap hardware, save another $200.00? OK now your $3000.00 block is $2700.00 and a marginal piece. The ONLY way I can see substantial savings is to have them cast in China, and that's no guarantee of huge savings. There is an FE Ford block cast in China and a really nice casting. I have been involved in a build of one. It was still over 3K for the block, cast in China. Steel caps though. Chevy blocks are cheap because thousands of them are made and sold every year.
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#92
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I bought a set, but I have no idea when I’ll actually use them. They’ll look nice on the shelf as I dream of more hp. May use them in a couple yrs with the rate at which I move with my hobby. I couldn’t pass up on the price...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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1979 Firebird Trans Am 301/4spd (Now 428) 1977 Firebird Formula 400/Auto 2007 Grand Prix GXP 5.3L |
#93
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I'm not a real player compared to you guys on here but I could see a couple of things holding the sale of these heads back from a street car perspective. And its has nothing to do with who made, quality or whatever.
They are round port, the majority of guys are running d-port, so to run these you're talking new headers as well. They are only available in 72cc, guys running 455+ cubes with Iron heads and flat tops can't just plop them on now and go and still run pump gas. Ironically the 72cc heads would be perfect for a 400 but they have big 215cc runners which isn't ideal for anyone still running 400s. If they had a head with a 215cc runner at 87~90cc And a 72cc head with a 175cc runner at these prices in d-port, bet they'd sell alot more.
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78 T/A 4SPEED, Original paint, match #’s, mine since ‘99. 77 t/a sold 85 Monte Carlo SS sold 83 Mustang GT sold |
#94
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I doubt you'll see a "Sportsman" style block and really don't think there is a need for one. You can make more 600 hp naturally aspirated and have the block live forever. You can make 900 with a power adder and have the block live a very long time. Another concern is, this industry isn't headed in a good direction. Most of the performance companies are being bought by investment groups whose only concern is bottom line profits. All they earned from four years in collage is raise prices and cut costs. The problem is most these companies they're destroying were found by folks that formed the business to solve a need and profits fell into place by selling a quality part that performed a purpose... Another reason a junkyard LS engine seems appealing, but you run into the same issues once you start building to to make more power. |
#95
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Not everyone runs a 455 and your post is spot on Phil.
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#96
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Is a 215 cc intake port really too large for a 400 + CID engine?
I have seen this posted several times recently. Are there any builders that have had success with E heads on 400 based engines? Thanks Murf Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
#97
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But, I don't know about those SM heads. |
#98
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Wouldn't it depend more on the intended rpm use of the car? A smaller cube, heavy, modestly geared automatic is going to like an efficient port. We are talking street engines aren't we?
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#99
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Point taken. This is the Street section. I was actually thinking of a Street/Strip setup. Car under 3500 lbs probably 3:73 gears and an OD trans. Still to big? Thanks Murf Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
#100
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To have the block cast here in the U.S., you are going to have to cast at least 1,000 units to get a cost that low. If it’s like everything else new in the Pontiac world, the jackals will pronounce it garbage BEFORE they even see one, let alone machine or build one.
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“It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance.” Dr. Thomas Sowell |
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