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Old 05-08-2020, 04:03 PM
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Default 1973 dual snorkel air cleaner

There are several eBay auctions listing the Pontiac dual snorkel as 1970-73. And a thread that talked about the same thing.

The question is, were any actually used in the '73 model year?

The underhood air should have been pulled thru ducting from a dead space of the fender suggesting no dual snorkel should have used other than the Ram Air air cleaner assy. But the way the '72 model year ended must have had a lot of parts sitting around. Did disgruntled employees put vehicles together with lots of mistakes like this? Can someone offer up some sort of proof this may have happened?

Thanks all.

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Old 05-08-2020, 05:00 PM
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I have tried placing the 1971/1972 air cleaners onto 1973+ Quardajets;
Unlike the assertion in the other thread, my experience suggests that the earlier dropped base air cleaners have insufficient clearance for the choke pot on the later carbs.

This is why I ran a 1972 intake carb in my '73 Formula with pre-73 aircleaner years ago.

Additionally, I am pretty sure the air cleaner ducting and all related parts would have been all tied into emissions - so you shouldn't have multiple setups being installed over the same model year, and same drivetrains.

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1970 Formula 400
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Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:01 PM
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The 73 Assembly Manual doesn't show a 2 snorkel air cleaner except for the RA cleaner.

Here's a page with the part numbers:

Air Cleaners


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Old 05-09-2020, 10:40 AM
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Already knew what was suppose to be. Am looking for what might have happened.

Jonny, the '70-2 Firebird air cleaner will fit on a '73-4 carb. The only things that may interfere are the choke tube to the back of the carb and the automatics' modulator tube, but they don't.

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Old 05-09-2020, 12:35 PM
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Having read the Echos of Norwood book, can't imagine they would put those parts on a new 73 model, when they couldn't build the whole 1972 cars because of outdated emissions parts? (or even hoods, fenders, etc)



Not to say there weren't a lot that escaped the plant and ended up on some individual's car.


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Old 05-09-2020, 01:18 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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personally have had in my hands:
-an original GM vendor manufactured dual snorkel 2nd Gen T/A original tab shaker base with only one heat riser (no heat riser in the passenger snorkel). The spot welds on tabs & passenger side snorkel were bone stock/ I know EXACTLY what those look like as I've restored quite a few very hard to find original dual snorkel aircleaner bases. That was over 20 years ago in Ft Worth & I looked the aircleaner assembly over very closely. The red '73 auto T/A that the air cleaner asm was removed from (in front of me) had the factory die stamped ear style retaining section & had factory rivets attaching the fiberglass top. There was no structure for functional solenoids to mount to, nothing had been cut, this was NOT an earlier functional shaker top. The only thing non stock appearing was the thin rear steel plate had been removed & a piece of metal screening had been cut & glued into the rear of the shaker top. Very common to see opened shakers with screens on '73 & '74 D-port T/A's. Through out the 80's & 90's I def ran across more '73's & 74's that had their opened shaker tops fastened to the hood with thin metal brackets. Typically, a Pontiac Torquer intake & misaligned small aftermarket aircleaner base lived under the hood. Nearly always being fairly common D port automatic cars, I never paid much attention to these cars. Given an X in th VIN, or a factory 4 speed, my "antennas go up".

-Several years before encountering the red '73 auto in FtWorth, & its long time owner, I owned a near identical non functional shaker top (faded & scuffed Brewster Green finish) with no solenoid attachment bracing. This shaker top also had the factory bolt down flanged area along with factory rivets holding the shell which I drilled out as the fiberglass shell top was seriously damaged on both front corners.

-early 00's I bid on eBay but did not win the auction on another tab style no solenoid mounting provision '71+ factory shaker top. Was not a thin shell '70 shaker but later 71+ thick shell top..

of interest, several early functional twin solenoid style shaker tops have also appeared that did not have the factory die stamped ears for attachment, but had the later clamp style attachment. One such shaker top was recently on eBay & definitely another odd piece, I don't believe it was created using the limited production 90's parts kit.

Aftermarket parts wise:
-am fully acquainted with the previous parts kit that PY was selling in the 90's to convert non functional shaker tops with a die formed brace, T rod, black plastic end frame & steel rear flapper. It took some really nice TIG & finish work to weld the brace in. the previously damaged Brewster Green shaker top that I mentioned swapping fiberglass shells on, also gained a set of those parts, a pair of NOS solenoids & repro harness in building a '71 functional shaker top.

-Last, Joe @ the Parts Place $298 repro shaker base that Mike referenced in his OP. Very easy to notice it only has one heat riser attachment, not correct for '71-72 T/A usage. Also obvious the stamping of the 1 1/2" drop center area is very generic, not like original bases. As with nearly all TPP reproductions, buyer beware for higher end restoration use.

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Old 05-09-2020, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Held for Ransom View Post
Already knew what was suppose to be. Am looking for what might have happened.

Jonny, the '70-2 Firebird air cleaner will fit on a '73-4 carb. The only things that may interfere are the choke tube to the back of the carb and the automatics' modulator tube, but they don't.
Tried to note an issue with early '70's dual snorkle T/A or Formula bases interfering with the choke pull off rod & the small steel slotted curved attachment for the secondary flaps on a factory assembled '73 Qjet 7043265 & an 17054819 ('74 SD GM service replacement) Qjet. No interference & could have even raised each factory aircleaner another hair with a thin factory airhorn gasket.

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Old 05-09-2020, 02:41 PM
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roger I had a 70 ra3 ta no ac. that I bought from the original owner and it had a dual snorkel with only one heat riser (on drivers side ). I questioned several people why and nobody ever had an answer. some said they had them also, but nobody seemed too know why some had the single and some had the dual.

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Old 05-09-2020, 03:05 PM
Tellyshavilli Tellyshavilli is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscle_collector View Post
roger I had a 70 ra3 ta no ac. that I bought from the original owner and it had a dual snorkel with only one heat riser (on drivers side ). I questioned several people why and nobody ever had an answer. some said they had them also, but nobody seemed too know why some had the single and some had the dual.
1 in 1000? Probably just a typical assembly line screwup , would be curious to know the production date of the car .RAIV TAs didn’t come out till July that would be where all the dual snorkels would’ve been headed , of course the RAIV ac Would’ve all been heat riser functional on both sides

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Old 05-09-2020, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muscle_collector View Post
roger I had a 70 ra3 ta no ac. that I bought from the original owner and it had a dual snorkel with only one heat riser (on drivers side ). I questioned several people why and nobody ever had an answer. some said they had them also, but nobody seemed too know why some had the single and some had the dual.
Gary, wouldn't surprise me if when the air cleaner base was mfg, the worker got one detail of the intended aircleaner requirements mixed up. Either loaded the wrong pass side snorkel into the machine to resistance weld, or installed the shaker tabs on a base meant for a Formula. Am assuming AC division made these, the only NOS aircleaners I've had was long ago & were in GM box with full part number.

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Old 05-09-2020, 10:25 PM
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wouldn't have a clue on build date. none of that mattered to me back then. sold it back in the early 80's and never heard of it again.

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Old 05-10-2020, 07:38 PM
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Roger, did you document the build date of the cars?

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Old 05-11-2020, 11:58 AM
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My understanding is that the SD-455 service replacement # is 17054910, and the replacement package is # 24-6020. This would be for a automatic car 1974 model year.

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Old 05-11-2020, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula kid View Post
My understanding is that the SD-455 service replacement # is 17054910, and the replacement package is # 24-6020. This would be for a automatic car 1974 model year.
Interesting post/tangent, that I'd like to comment on;

I don't at this time have the 17054910 in my files, but I have come across it before;
I try to only record numbers when I have clear proof of the listing.
To that point, right now I have the '911 listed as being a 1973 SD455 service replacement carb.
Also, unlike OEM applications the SR Pontiac replacement carbs seem to have no logic on how the numbers were applied.
Then when you add in the disconnect between the package numbers, and the application numbers, it gets all jumbled up.

I wonder if that "24-6020" is an older Holley rebuild carb application number;
To date, all the numbers I have recorded use the same style numbering, but all start with a "64" not "24", and all are 72xx to 82xx numbers.
My knee jerk reaction to reading that number was that it was a Carter in house service replacement carb, and I do have some 6xxx numbers, but all those end with an "S" suffix.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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Old 05-11-2020, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
Interesting post/tangent, that I'd like to comment on;

I don't at this time have the 17054910 in my files, but I have come across it before;
I try to only record numbers when I have clear proof of the listing.
To that point, right now I have the '911 listed as being a 1973 SD455 service replacement carb.
Also, unlike OEM applications the SR Pontiac replacement carbs seem to have no logic on how the numbers were applied.
Then when you add in the disconnect between the package numbers, and the application numbers, it gets all jumbled up.

I wonder if that "24-6020" is an older Holley rebuild carb application number;
To date, all the numbers I have recorded use the same style numbering, but all start with a "64" not "24", and all are 72xx to 82xx numbers.
My knee jerk reaction to reading that number was that it was a Carter in house service replacement carb, and I do have some 6xxx numbers, but all those end with an "S" suffix.
The information that I have is from 2 SD-455 SR carbs that I have. One ordered through GM and the second I got through Nunzi. The 24-6020 # that is referred to is from the Delco Carburetor Sheet Bulletin: 9C-6064 dated November 1975 page 1 replaces 9C-6064 November 1973. This is the Delco part number that printed on the box of the carb when you get it from the dealer.

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Old 05-11-2020, 06:08 PM
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thank you very much for the clarification!!

Does that Delco sheet show if that '911 carb is for both 1973/1974?
Does it show the part number that the '911 carb supercedes?

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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Old 05-11-2020, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
thank you very much for the clarification!!

Does that Delco sheet show if that '911 carb is for both 1973/1974?
Does it show the part number that the '911 carb supercedes?
No, the 17054911 number is not listed

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Old 05-11-2020, 08:41 PM
'ol Pinion head 'ol Pinion head is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by formula kid View Post
My understanding is that the SD-455 service replacement # is 17054910, and the replacement package is # 24-6020. This would be for a automatic car 1974 model year.
...and the GM part number on the original Rochestor box for a 17054910 455 SD SR Q-jet is 17054819. Regret typing that number, the one on the flap of the original box. I was much more concerned & diligent checking up under 6 different early 70's 4bbl Formula & TransAm aircleaner bases to find the supposed area of interference when installed on '73 & 74 usage Pontiac Qjets.

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