[Rocky Rotella]

It was never a factory option, however. It was dealer installed/arranged at the time of sale, so the sun roof can't technically be considered original equipment from Pontiac on the Firebird.

[necdb3]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

PHS shows nothing. However, in the factory Pontiac service manuals it does show a code for the sunroof in an F-body car which suffices to say that while not listed within PHS, it was available.

That is NOT the same roof as an SSJ

[Larry Navarro]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

It was never a factory option, however. It was dealer installed/arranged at the time of sale, so the sun roof can't technically be considered original equipment from Pontiac on the Firebird.

False.

I have the Pontiac SERVICE documentation shows the code.....if there's a code, then it was a pontiac....."technically" speaking.

[Larry Navarro]

Originally Posted by necdb3

That is NOT the same roof as an SSJ

What makes it differ from the others?

[SD73]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

False.

I have the Pontiac SERVICE documentation shows the code.....if there's a code, then it was a pontiac.

Can you post what you have, Larry? I've looked in my Service Manuals and the Brochure you've posted and haven't been able to find anything Firebird related.

[Larry Navarro]

I can obtain it......my neighbor has the 4" service binder that his son obtained from a retired pontiac service mechanic.
Had the HPP feature on my SD been published 4 years ago, folks would have been prevy to the info.

[Rocky Rotella]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

False.

I have the Pontiac SERVICE documentation shows the code.....if there's a code, then it was a pontiac....."technically" speaking.

Larry, I understand the vigilant persistence since you owned such a car, but until we see a UPC code on an PHS invoice or Pontiac-printed window sticker, there's no proof Pontiac ever billled a customer for it. Thus it wasn't a factory option.

We can all agree that Pontiac outsourced Hurst Hatches, but Pontiac also gave it a UPC and billed customers for it. They also publicized it pretty heavily. Unfortunately, beyond the 1973 Accessories Catalog (which lists the sunroof as a dealer installed option), there's no other sales information about it as far as I know.

[Rocky Rotella]

And to clarify, I'm speaking Firebird only. Not A- or G-body.

[Larry Navarro]

Nothin "vigilant" about it Rocky........just letting folks know what the facts are. Are you trying to discredit that fact that there is a code?
There's been numourous occurances where "automotive experts" have been proven WRONG about such "out of the norm" occurances. and in a few instances noted in HPP too.

[Rocky Rotella]

Ok, Larry. I can see where this is going.

We can wait for you to present your facts that includes a UPC and a retail price on a Pontiac price list, and then proof via build sheet, PHS docs, or window sticker that a 1973 Firebird was built with it.

[PONTIAC LARRY]

Originally Posted by LeighP

I have two friends who both own ASC sunroofed cars. I've always wondered just how rare they are. One is a 74 T/A, and I believe the other is a 74 T/A also, but I can't be 100% on that.

We had a white 74 455 TA parts car 20 years ago that should have been saved, it had a factory type clean install electric sunroof. I still can remember the blue interior side trimmed with headliner, clean install looked factory.

[Larry Navarro]

Originally Posted by Rocky Rotella

Ok, Larry. I can see where this is going.

We can wait for you to present your facts that includes a UPC and a retail price on a Pontiac price list, and then proof via build sheet, PHS docs, or window sticker that a 1973 Firebird was built with it.

Rocky, seems you guys HPP seem to have a thorn in your azz where it concerns me. This goes back to the days when I introduced the WFO shaker assembly. I guess you have to grease a few palms in order to get things happening over there.
I don't play games or play favorites, it's not my style.


Nevertheless, I can disclose THE CODE.
I'm done for now.........carry on.

[RamAir]

I worked at a Buick dealership in the early 70's. There was an aftermarket accessory company that was an authorized ASC dealer that performed 'close' to factory sunroof installations that we utilized. They were not distinguishable from the factory install except for the power switch. We posted a supplement to the window sticker adding the install and price.

[SD73]

Originally Posted by ramair

I worked at a Buick dealership in the early 70's. There was an aftermarket accessory company that was an authorized ASC dealer that preformed 'close' to factory sunroof installations that we utilized. They were not distinguishable from the factory install except for the power switch. We posted a supplement to the window sticker adding the install and price.

That would make sense.

Here's a pic of the Accessories brochure. No mention of installs in F-Bodies here.

[Formulabruce]

My '91 and '92 ASC Firebird Convertibles both went as unfinished T top cars to ASC, and billing on window sticker was from Pontiac.
But thats another generation in another time.....
The link to ebay I posted earlier in this thread was a '76 Formula with a power moon roof.

[SD73]

Here's the Service Binder info. Again, for A and G bodies.

[Judge273]

Here's what I know about the sunroof.

It survives as a desirable option today!

Unlike the T-top or vert for that matter.

In 1973, on a SD TA way cool!!! No pun intended...

[Norwood]

Originally Posted by Judge273

In 1973, on a SD TA way cool!!! No pun intended...

That's not really what's in question here. Of course it cool but is it Pontiac Cool? Come on Larry What you got?



I have to admit tha I considered cutting a hole in my roof back in the day when those pop ups were the rage, thank God my cousin talked me out of it...

[Rocky Rotella]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

Rocky, seems you guys HPP seem to have a thorn in your azz where it concerns me. This goes back to the days when I introduced the WFO shaker assembly. I guess you have to grease a few palms in order to get things happening over there.
I don't play games or play favorites, it's not my style.


Nevertheless, I can disclose THE CODE.
I'm done for now.........carry on.

Larry, I don't know what you feel that HPP owes you? Whatever it may be, I advised in the past that you contact then-editor Tom DeMauro and address your grievances with him. If you didn’t attempt to reach him after my offer, then you’ll likely have a tough time convincing anyone that HPP continues to treat you unfairly. It doesn’t matter now anyway because Tom has moved to Hemmings and Chris Phillip is now at the helm. You can reach him at christopher.phillip@sorc.com to explain what you’re owed.

Obviously you have a grudge with me, and I’m guessing it’s because you feel I am part of the “establishment.” I don’t work for HPP, I’m a freelancer, but clearly understand the association. That said, I have no “thorn in my azz” about you and don’t play favorites. Proof? I along with HPP supported your company, WFO, with (1) feature/tech article on your clutch linkage kit in the Jan 2006 issue that’s still on HPP’s website. http://www.highperformancepontiac.co...m/viewall.html

If you consider your donation of a clutch linkage kit that retailed at the time for $75 for a product review/install that I initiated greasing my palm, well, then someone at SORC is getting rich because I can assure you I see none of it! But let’s be honest, for your $75 kit, in return you received about 4 pages of detailed print in a national publication that certainly drew publicity to your company and products. And it’s still on the site 8 years after print!

I also mentioned/promoted your drop-base Shaker kit (3) times in Tech Q&A replies and didn’t expect or receive gratis from you. There was also a mention of your kit in a feature article on a 1970 Trans Am that I wrote. I’d be happy to provide issue dates and page numbers if you’ve conveniently forgotten how unfairly you’ve been treated by me. And guess what, Tom DeMauro approved the inclusion of all articles and mentions, so if you think he’s out to get you, it certainly hasn’t been by keeping your company or its products out of print!

Concerning your Super Duty Trans Am, I never said or even suggested that I didn’t appreciate or like it. I think the ASC sunroof it’s equipped with is interesting and I’m anxious to see how well it turns out after a thorough restoration by the new owner. I never suggested it was bogus, unauthentic, or anything of the sort. In fact, I hope to see it someday in person so I can photograph it for myself. But I have no idea why is hasn’t been featured in HPP so far, and it's not any of my business. That’s something you should ask Randy Allen (I’m assuming he shot it) or Chris Phillip.

Now back to the original topic. Until someone can provide documentation that supports Pontiac offering a sunroof option in the Firebird during the 1970s, then it’s really nothing more than an aftermarket sunroof. When the day comes where we see "THE CODE" for it in a Pontiac price/option list, inclusion on the list of equipment on a build sheet, or on the extra-cost options on a factory-to-dealer invoice (PHS doc), the hobby can/will take a different approach toward the Firebird sunroof. And that day make come when you post the documentation you uncovered that's eluded the hobby for 40 years. I’m genuinely excited to see it.

[necdb3]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

What makes it differ from the others?

It looks different on the inside. I see that the headliner is different and has a bump in the front for a crank.