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#21
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Quote:
Clay |
#22
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Here is a picture after we corrected the builders spacing. I bought these spacers at Butlers.
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#23
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Gentlemen, I'll be brief. I've been very busy at home and at work so haven't had much opportunity for updates. The saga continues..
I went in last weekend full of hope and determination. The first thing I found on taking the oil pan off is that the windage tray almost touches the pan rail on the one side. If I tapped it with my finger it would ring. Seemed like a possible source of the noise and another reason to do the spacing. I was also looking for the mystery dowel. Since it was in the tray I figured it had to come from the middle three caps. I had already checked #3 so I took off and inspected #2 and #4. All dowels accounted for. Finally, I thought I can't sleep if I don't know and I'm not taking of the rear main if I don't have to. I found my long philips screwdriver fit in the dowel hole. Using this I was able to determine that rear main cap had its dowels but one of the front cap's dowels was out! I brake cleaned it out and loctited the dowel (only had blue on hand) and drove it back in. This was a replacement used dowel, not the mangled one I found. It did seem a nice tight fit so not sure why it moved out. I was also able to find the "5" on my tray so it is the right one.. Spacing that tray out was one of the most difficult things I've ever done on a car. The dipstick tube really didn't want to let it move and you have to keep that middle spacer aligned. I also found there was only a very small range of crankshaft angle where it was possible to line it all up. Anyway, I got that done. So.. The end result. I'm sure you know. After removing a dowel that was flying around, after replacing a loose dipstick tube, after spacing out the windage tray.. Exactly the same noise. Also, I looked very closely at the relationship of the starter gear to the ring gear. My mini starter has a nice long throw and is nowhere near the ring at any time. The flexplate is a thick aftermarket unit with zero wobble anywhere. Heck, I even took off my belts to confirm it's nothing to do with the front accessories. The crank pulley has the reinforcement ring and is in great shape.. Anyway, she's running pretty well. The weather is cooling a bit here and the car likes it. But the tick lives on! Sam
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-- Sam Agnew Where you come from is gone; where you thought you were going to, weren't never there; and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it. Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod |
#24
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Have you treated for Lyme Disease?
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My Pontiac is a '57 GMC with its original 347" Pontiac V8 and dual-range Hydra-Matic. |
#25
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Have you eliminated any possibility of this being exhaust either a pipe hitting or a heat valve flapper or a internal baffle loose in a muffler
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A man who falls for everything stands for nothing. |
#26
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WAY WAY WAY back when I first got into this hobby I installed a set of Black Jack (pretty sure that's who made them) on a 1980 Chevy 350 in a 3/4 ton 4 x 4 truck my brother owned. Other engine upgrades were made include a Crane 288 Blazer cam and good flowing #487 heads.
From day one there was an audible "tick" in that engine that I could NOT nail down. It was constant with RPM and slightly louder under load, but difficult to locate and consistent. We dealt with the tick for many months, then one day I decided to find that sucker. It turned out to be the tiniest hole you could imagine on a header tube to flange weld on the underside of the tube. Since it was pointing down it sure sounded deeper in the engine that what it was, but we removed the headers and put center dump manifolds on it, problem solved. I never again used headers on any of those types of vehicles. They were replaced not because of the "tick", but because they transferred BUTT TONS of heat to the starter, blew out collector gaskets in less time than it took to type this, heated up the floorboards, and kept KILLING plug wires by melting down the boots. Factory manifolds with the correct heat shields solved all that, and I actually thing it made more power and for sure a LOT less noise under the hood!.......Cliff
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If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Veteran! https://cliffshighperformance.com/ 73 Ventura, SOLD 455, 3740lbs, 11.30's at 120mph, 1977 Pontiac Q-jet, HO intake, HEI, 10" converter, 3.42 gears, DOT's, 7.20's at 96mph and still WAY under the roll bar rule. Best ET to date 7.18 at 97MPH (1/8th mile), |
#27
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Try adjusting the lifters with the method Cliff said in the other thread.
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#28
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Is that a bottle jack under the balancer?
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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2 373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft 308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471 |
#29
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So.. I looked back and one common denominator through everything else is that I have had the tick since I have had the new downpipes. My old ones were badly crushed and I figured that since the engine was out because "Zero Oil Pressure" (see thread) I should order new ones. The new ones had a much bigger trumpet "mouth" and I had to grind them at the stud locations in order for them to fit (I have the RAM AIR manifolds). I knew that at least the passenger side one had a slight leak because I ground a bit too far.
So yesterday I went into the industrial area here in search of some round exhaust gaskets. I found a few different types and I managed to get two of those that were a pretty good fit. I was pretty hopeful actually after I had installed them.. Tick. Tick. Tick.. Oh well.. But I do feel like I did get rid of some noise. Now that so many things are buttoned down I really feel like the noise comes from the front balancer area. I love the theory of the front pulley being loose but the only problem with that is that my front pulleys have the reinforcement ring, the four bolts have their lock washers and the whole thing has been off and on numerous times. Also, noise is the same with no belts. Also, balancer is solid, fairly new, and has been off and on several times. So it can't really be that.. I'll probably replace the exhaust manifold gaskets just because I have a spare set and it's not that hard.. Sam
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-- Sam Agnew Where you come from is gone; where you thought you were going to, weren't never there; and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it. Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod |
#30
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Just slot out the bolt holes in the gaskets and you can then slip them in without fully yanking out any of the bolts.
__________________
Wernher Von Braun warned before his retirement from NASA back in 1972, that the next world war would be against the ETs! And he was not talking about 1/8 or 1/4 mile ETs! 1) 1940s 100% silver 4 cup tea server set. Two dry rotted 14 x 10 Micky Thompson slicks. 1) un-mailed in gift coupon from a 1972 box of corn flakes. Two pairs of brown leather flip flops, never seen more then 2 mph. Education is what your left with once you forget things! |
The Following User Says Thank You to steve25 For This Useful Post: | ||
#31
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It doesn't need to be the exhaust gasket. I think Cliff mentioned a pinhole in the flange weld . Excuse me if I got that wrong.
Is that the original crank? Or a stroker? |
#32
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When cold, my '71 GTO makes a tick when going around turns.
...And on my car it's the fan touching the bottom of the shroud. It only happens when it's cold. Don't know why. I've chalked it up to sagging lol. But it ticks ticks ticks, until it warms up. marks on the bottom of the shroud. |
#33
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OK. So, this thing has just been bugging the heck out of me but it worries me less than it used to. For one thing, I now have a commute to work and back that sees me cruising with traffic at 75-80mph with no overdrive. I'm driving 50 miles a day. I figure anything serious would have caused an issue by now. Secondly, I have just covered so many things. But it is pretty loud, especially warm, in gear at idle. You don't hear it at all over 2,000rpm though. And the other thing that just keeps my mental gears turning is the way that the tick goes completely away under braking (as well as at higher engine speeds). It's loudest idling warm in gear and a bit less loud and harsh idling in neutral. Not sure if it is more to do with unloading the engine or with the slightly higher idle speed.
Today I did the following: I secured the exhaust system better and tightened everything. I have clamps between the downpipes and rest of system so it was able to slide backwards. I put some metal zip ties around the H cross pipe and the trans crossmember to secure that. I went all around the engine running with a length of hose as a stethoscope. That noise is really really from the front balancer area and no where else. I can hear it just behind the front of the oil pan. I also did the slo-mo video thing and it is a real metalic impact sort of noise at 1/2 engine speed. I also loosened all the spark plug wires at the cap. I took them off one by one making sure to shock myself. No change in the noise at any of the cylinders being de-activated. But anyway, I recently replaced the rod bearings and I know there's nothing bad that end. So, I figure something is making contact on maybe #1 or #2 power stroke at the front cap/main area. Now up against that should be the back of the timing chain gear, right? I wonder if I managed to raise a dent or ridge that catches the ridge where the front cap meets the front main or something. And when I am decelerating the crank moves just that tiny bit forward to prevent contact..? I know that the first time I had the balancer off on the old Eagle crank it was a really tight fit and a lot of prying got done. That's the same timing gear even though it slides on and off much better with the current stock crank. I really can't think of anything else. I suppose I could order a new timing set.. So.. With an automatic and stock type full size torque converter, what load does it put thrust-wise on the crank. Does it push the crank forward when you put it in gear or does it pull or does it not do much? So, anyway. That's where I am right now. Pretty sure the noise is somehow coming from the timing gear / front of block and #1 cap interface. Might also have been a player in dropping that one dowel I guess.. Sam
__________________
-- Sam Agnew Where you come from is gone; where you thought you were going to, weren't never there; and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it. Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod |
#34
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Quote:
Do you still have the fuel pump eccentric? (run the stock fuel pump?) The bolts holding the cam retainer may be hitting the gear? The oil galley plug(s) hitting the gear? Or is the harmonic damper cracked? Correct damper for the crank? SO HARD TO DIAGNOSE OVER INTERNET!
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John Wallace - johnta1 Pontiac Power RULES !!! www.wallaceracing.com Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever! "Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts." "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates |
#35
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The cam does move forward and back with acceleration. Kinda sounds like maybe the gears or chain are making contact somewhere. That kind of noise can travel. Pull the front of the motor off and start it up.
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Robert 69 Firebird-462/Edel round ports/currently running the Holley Sniper/4sp/3.23posi/Deluxe Int/pwr st/vintage air/4wl disc( a work in progress-always ) http://youtu.be/eaWBd3M9MN4 |
#36
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Have you tried removing the fuel pump? Run it out of a gas can.
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Will Rivera '69 Firebird 400/461, 290+ E D-Ports, HR 230/236, 4l80E, 8.5 Rear, 3.55 gears '64 LeMans 400/461, #16 Heads, HR 230/236, TKO600, 9inch Rear, 3.89 gears '69 LeMans Vert, 350, #47 heads: Non-running project |
#37
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For the audio forensics guys out there. This is an in-gear idle (parking brake on, obvs).
https://youtu.be/pKni8sLQ6_g As far as the fuel pump, I've replaced it once already. I can put the stethoscope right on the fuel pump and hear the normal fuel pump oscillations. It's not this hard metallic thwak that the tick is. I can't think of a way to video it well for you all but if I'm decelerating on the brake sufficiently this noise goes completely, I mean _completely_ away. If I'm merely coasting with the engine also unloaded, also foot off the throttle, also about the same RPM (but not slowing down hard) the noise is there. I bet you if I had it in the driveway and jacked up the rear sufficiently to tilt the engine forwards it would also go away.. It's not like external interference or anything. If I have the engine in gear the noise is the same whether it is D or R, even though that tilts the engine in opposite directions.. Sam
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-- Sam Agnew Where you come from is gone; where you thought you were going to, weren't never there; and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it. Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod Last edited by glhs#116; 12-01-2019 at 01:53 AM. |
#38
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Pretty damned hard in person as well!!
Sam
__________________
-- Sam Agnew Where you come from is gone; where you thought you were going to, weren't never there; and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it. Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod |
#39
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Man, you gotta be joking! I'm sure this is a prank. Let me tell you, when I just pressurised the oil pump with my very weak Ni-Cad powered drill (when I had just the block, crank and lifters and cam in on the engine stand) that squirter slot in the front cam bearing hole nearly doused me. I can't imagine the havoc it would wreak if I fired up the engine with no timing cover..
Are you trolling me? Sam
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-- Sam Agnew Where you come from is gone; where you thought you were going to, weren't never there; and where you are ain't no good unless you can get away from it. Ministry - Jesus Built My Hotrod |
#40
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How about that same video in regular speed?
Where is the microphone located, in the cell phone? |
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