[bascom123]

Well this past weekend was an adventure to say the least. I flew to chicago to look at aquiring the younger sister to my 1969 Firebird. I got a good deal on a pretty much stock single family owned Black 1977 T/A Pontiac 400 automatic (TH350), white deluxe vinyl interior. Its pretty stock other than it looks like it was repainted at some point (original black) and who ever repainted it decided to put the SE decals on it or at least that what i think. Unless this thing is a real SE car TBD.

I'm going to order the PHS to find out for sure and to see how it was optioned. The cowl shows me a black WS4 with white deluxe interior. The car had A/C (most of it missing) and the 8 track, i also believe it is a WS7 but still need to confirm it. There is some small body work to do, front half of the floors looked like they were done decent with proper partial pans. I drove it 1200 miles from Chicago to Tampa bay area and other then the oil leak (i suspect rear main seal) it ran well, a bit hot (so the gauge said) but good.

2 days 1200 miles and 8 quarts of oil. I think its safe to say the underneath of the car is sufficiently lubricated at this point ..Let the fun begin.

I plan on fixing up the oil leak, and getting the AC fully functional. Id like to have her in good enough shape to be able to drive up to Dayton next year for the Nats. Sissy is parked next to The Hulk (my 69 firebird) in my garage safe and sound.

I really dig the period Hurst wheels.

[muscle_collector]

looks good. white interior is probably one of the rarest colors.

[Grand73Am]

Good looking car. Congrats!

But I can tell you that 77's did not come with WS7, or WS6. The WS6 first appeared in 78's, and still had rear drums. For 1979, rear disc brakes were new, and added to the WS6 package. However due to the popularity and demand for the rear disc brakes, there was a resulting shortage of rear disc brakes in 79. So, the WS7 option was created. It was the WS6 option with drum brakes, like the 78 WS6 was. So, the WS7 was first offered in 79 for that reason. I don't know if they continued offering WS7 in 80 and 81 or not, after they caught up with production of the rear discs.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Major congrats!!!
Are those 15" wheels? Just wondering.
I'm not sure they were for period for a 77 TA. I'm no expert, but don't ever remember Hurst wheels on anything in the 70's. Not trying to sound critical, just saying your cool car has some unusual stuff on it!
When I bought my 77, new off the lot. It was either the black car (that I obviously bought) with black velour interior, or a white car with a red velour interior. Man I could not stomach that red interior.....

I wonder if ladytata knew about this car?

[bascom123]

Originally Posted by Grand73Am

Good looking car. Congrats!

But I can tell you that 77's did not come with WS7, or WS6. The WS6 first appeared in 78's, and still had rear drums. For 1979, rear disc brakes were new, and added to the WS6 package. However due to the popularity and demand for the rear disc brakes, there was a resulting shortage of rear disc brakes in 79. So, the WS7 option was created. It was the WS6 option with drum brakes, like the 78 WS6 was. So, the WS7 was first offered in 79 for that reason. I don't know if they continued offering WS7 in 80 and 81 or not, after they caught up with production of the rear discs.

And when i said WS7 what I meant was W72 lol..

[bascom123]

Originally Posted by 77 TRASHCAN

Major congrats!!!
Are those 15" wheels? Just wondering.
I'm not sure they were for period for a 77 TA. I'm no expert, but don't ever remember Hurst wheels on anything in the 70's. Not trying to sound critical, just saying your cool car has some unusual stuff on it!
When I bought my 77, new off the lot. It was either the black car (that I obviously bought) with black velour interior, or a white car with a red velour interior. Man I could not stomach that red interior.....

I wonder if ladytata knew about this car?

I believe they are 15" wheels.. While i realize they were not available new at the time this car came out i could seem them on this car the color is a great compliment. Interesting read here on the history of the Hurst gold wheels (1965-1969 and revamped in mid 1980s).

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0806phr-hurst-wheel/

[bascom123]

Update: Validated the Y6 Block code and a 1977 casting, I cant see the partial vin beside the water pump because of paint and hose in the way. I'm going to have to get creative with a camera or something i think.

Heads are 6X-4 and have chrome covers (look old and original) as well. So all of this is validating the W72 option.

I'm going to dig deeper into it this weekend get a sense of where my oil leak is and what i have to do to close it up.


Things are adding up, looks like it may be a number matching as claimed but at worst a replacement block. I believe they did not stamp vins on those correct?

[johnta1]

Usually not on the SR blocks. At least from factory.

The dealer may though?
(but the stamp probably wouldn't look like original would)

[bascom123]

PHS came in and the car adds up, Black Auto W72, 8 track, deluxe white interior, AC car, sold into dealership in Joliet IL.

I did some digging this past weekend and found the serial with the help of a light and a mirror. The block partial vin matches the cars vin

I also found one of the oil leaks, the drivers side original valve cover has some dents around the lip and i believe the oil was seeping out of the rear fender side between the cover and the gasket or gasket and head corner down onto the motor and header. Looks like they were not making a good seal. So i'm going to replace the valve covers and the gaskets and go from there. They are original but starting to show their age.

The plugs all showed good air fuel and i didn't see any real fouling so I gather my rings are good to. Next up compression test, new plugs, clean up, and put it back together. I still also need to validate the tranny vin and rear diff.

I'm feeling good about this survivor

[johnta1]

That's great!

[chicagoland]

See, not all Northern cars dissolved into rust, ;-)

[bascom123]

Originally Posted by chicagoland

See, not all Northern cars dissolved into rust, ;-)

Not a rust bucket but for its age I'd say its well preserved. It has clearly spent a lot of its life in the garage. Don't get me wrong I have my work ahead of me

Now if only the HOA would let me double my garage size.

[bascom123]

So some small updates for everyone since i have been neglecting this thread.

I yanked the motor, replaced the lower end gaskets and bearings and re-assembled the motor plus freshened it up with a nice coat of paint. New headers, new valley pan, new oil pan and some other bits n bobs.

While I had it out I decided to clean up the engine bay and tackle the Vintage Air upgrade. First step before all this was to replace the subframe bushings which were shot. Glad to say they all came out without incident however the ends of the subframe were rotted out. So the rest of the car came apart so I could repair the subframe. Also of note were the mounting points for the swaybar bushing were shot and the front sides where the bumper brackets mount to the body were weak. I cut out and welded in new steel for the sides and reinforced the lower section for the sway bar bushings.

No now my garage is a disaster zone.. lol

I repaired the ends of the frame with new steel, re-inforced the mid body mounts under the pads. Blasted the frame and just put some nice low gloss black paint on it. It has not looked this good in 35 plus years.

Inner fenders got blasted and paint as well as the core support. They look new again.

Putting it all back together is next on the agenda. First up is new poly engine mounts, then a full Suspension rebuild with all new poly bushings, new upper ball joints (they were original factory ones), lower ball joints are already new, new UMI springs and KYB shocks, new larger sway bar and end links.

Everything that came off will go through my HF blast cabinet and get a fresh coat of primer/paint.

Then the frame goes back on and its time to put the engine in her place and fire it up. Once i wrangle the kinks out ill put the rest together.

Photos so far here for those interested.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=4966c49293

Can you re-use the lower control arm bolt nuts? There were no spring washers or anything just the bolt and what I think are undersized nuts. Two had to be cut out and two came out (one of those two went into the trash as it was too far rusted). But i'm debating just buying grade 8 bolts or sourcing originals from SecondGen Graveyard but i wonder about the nuts?

Thoughts?

feel free to browse the photos to date there are many and i am adding more as i make progress for those who want to follow along.

Louis

[Grand73Am]

Check with John at https://www.lab-14.com/ . He should have some new control arm bolts and nuts to sell you. I bought some from him a couple years ago.

[TAKerry]

Looks like your in deep now, nice looking work on the motor. What is the build date of your car?

[bascom123]

Production number 69320, one of the first 70K off the line. 02E build date.

[bascom123]

More progress made this past two weeks i have been off for the holidays.

Got the frame and body reassembled, the engine, headers and tranny installed, and hooked up to a rad and got it fired up. NO LEAKS Great oil pressure and solid temps.
Photos and video on my shared link Photos and Video. Feel free to take a look.

[Torquewar]

Very nice car and smart to pull it apart and do it right. There are always issues when diving into the project. Nice see the pics keep at it.

[bascom123]

Thanks Torquewar, and yes do it right the first time. Ill feel much sfer running this thing down the highway in its future state. pics added as i go along so check back.