[242177P]

Originally Posted by Will

Point taken about shows and what has survived to this day. But, between myself, friends, and family there are a lot of cars that have passed through our hands over the years and as mentioned, I've only ever seen less than a handful of the darned things. I used to do a lot of wrecking yard shopping, too. Guess myself and the folks I know have been buying (and looking at buying) the wrong kinds of cars... LOL.

I'm thinking it could be a regional thing? I've seen plenty of fifties cars in the junkyard, but outside of those I've only seen three on the tree in EARLY sixties cars. Might even be a city versus country thing?

Even a plant by plant breakdown might not tell the whole story, but auto versus manual should be doable?

[400 4spd.]

Originally Posted by 242177P

I'm thinking it could be a regional thing? I've seen plenty of fifties cars in the junkyard, but outside of those I've only seen three on the tree in EARLY sixties cars. Might even be a city versus country thing?

Even a plant by plant breakdown might not tell the whole story, but auto versus manual should be doable?

I don't know if marketing or supply played a part, but I can see the validity in that. I've lived in a city of a few hundred thousand, and also a rural country setting for 30 years.

Driving for miles with no traffic lights vs. a light every 75 yards makes a difference.

[pont406]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

In almost 50 years of looking at these cars, I have never seen a real GTO of any kind with 3 on the tree manual shift. I've seen plenty of auto on the column cars, and 3 on the floor cars, but zero 3 on the tree cars. I have seen, owned, and driven plenty of 3 on the tree cars and trucks over the years, just no GTO's. Would love to see a real one.

Look at pics in my post a couple post above yours, if you want to see a 66 GTO with 3 on the tree

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by 400 4spd.

I don't know if marketing or supply played a part, but I can see the validity in that. I've lived in a city of a few hundred thousand, and also a rural country setting for 30 years.

Driving for miles with no traffic lights vs. a light every 75 yards makes a difference.

Some taxi companies as well as police/highway patrol departments stayed with manual transmissions for quite a while after automatics had been accepted as reliable by the majority of buyers. Can you imagine having to drive a cab with a three speed manual transmission in a big city?

[Sirrotica]

Working at a Pontiac dealer in 1970 in Erie PA we had a 69 Vedoro green 4 door B body come in to the service dept. I think it was a Catalina, but being we were right across the lake from Canada it could have been a Canadian car. It had a 3 on the tree and a 250 inch inline 6 in it. one of the weirdest B bodies I ever saw.

Back in the late 60s Pontiac stick cars were few and far between. I remember a 60 Catalina 389 with a 3 speed stick and the E (economy) designated engine in it with the small 2bbl that normally came on the 283 chevys.

A couple 61 bubble tops, 1 Catalina, and 1 was a Ventura. I bought a 56 Starchief with a 317 4bbl that had a 3 speed column shift in it and I also owned a 63 Catalina that was a 389 4bbl, originally a three speed column shift. When I bought it someone had put a BW T10 in it, but the column shift was still visible with the lever removed.

We scoured every junk yard in and around Erie for stick shift Pontiacs, as far as I remember those were it. That encompasses the full size cars from 55-64 I remember after hunting for cars for flywheels, bellhousing, and pedal/cross shaft/pivot ball assemblies. Being we were racing full size cars at the local oval track we were always on the lookout for stick cars for parts.

If you wanted to convert a chevy to a stick, almost every yard had a stick setup for a chevy, because most of my buddies had chevys and we converted more than a few over from powerglides, and even did a turboglide conversion. Fords had some stick cars in yards too, never converted any of those though.

Buicks and olds big cars were even more rare than Pontiacs, think I saw one buick, I don't remember any oldsmobiles.

[north]

Bit of trivia, Pontiac invented (or at least introduced for the American market) the three on the tree. I think it was in the 30’s, it was $10 extra and it was promoted as both a safety feature and to free up space for the center passenger.

I drove an early 60’s GMC towtruck in my school days for pocket money. It had a Pontiac V8 in it and had so many miles the shifter had slop enough that I’d hit my knee when shifting. 3 on the tree is actually kind of superior to a floor shift in that the shifts are much shorter (except on that old GMC ;-). I could rock that ugly old truck in the snow like nobodies business.

[Will]

Originally Posted by 242177P

...'ve only seen three on the tree in EARLY sixties cars. ...

This is what I'm saying. My experience has been almost exclusively with mid '60s and newer cars and 3otT seems to be exceedingly rare in those years. None of my friends has ever owned one to my knowledge. Never had one in my family except that '64 Nova wagon my brother owned. I can think of a fair number of manual transmission American cars that friends and family have owned over the years and all were floor shifted.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Will

Well, I'm just going by my experiences and I have very little with pre-'60s cars as they've never been of much interest to me. I was arguing that they were not very common in mid'60s and newer cars as that's simply been my experience.

I seriously have only ever seen a few of them in early - mid-'60s cars. You hardly ever see them at shows or anywhere. Other than that one my brother owned when I was 12 I don't know anyone who's owned one so if they were so plentiful, how come so few have survived? I just find it really hard to believe that they were in a majority of manual transmission equipped cars, at least from '65 and later.

That's because most of them became parts donor cars for cars that were deemed worthy of saving, or were cloned into being a "Muscle or Pony Car" with a floor shift (auto or manual).

Example - a very clean '69 Lemans 2 door, 6 cyl, 3OTT car gets a V8, a 4sp manual, GTO hood and nose and now instead of a relatively hard to sell cheap car it's a very desirable vehicle - even if the buyer knows it's a clone.

I don't think anyone has claimed that 3OTT's were the majority - but they were the base transmission setup for most available cars - even in the later 60's. The majority of people paid to upgrade from a manual transmission to an automatic.

As I posted earlier, I've owned late 60's vehicles with a 3OTT.

The very first car my wife and I purchased together was a '69 Chevy Bel Air with a 327, 3OTT and AC. I was transferred to Goodfellow AFB in TX in July of 1973 and we wanted 4 doors and AC - nothing else mattered. Because of the 3OTT, the car was cheaper than anything else available - which made it affordable to an E-2 with a wife and a kid.

[Sidponcho]

For years and years, 3 on the tree was the standard in light pickup trucks and Van's. Once the truck got into the 3/4 or 1 ton range, a larger floor shifted manual was standard.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Working at a Pontiac dealer in 1970 in Erie PA we had a 69 Vedoro green 4 door B body come in to the service dept. I think it was a Catalina, but being we were right across the lake from Canada it could have been a Canadian car. It had a 3 on the tree and a 250 inch inline 6 in it. one of the weirdest B bodies I ever saw.

With a six cylinder engine, it had to be a Canadian Pontiac.

[389]

My buddy had a 68 Catalina convertible with a 428 and three on the tree. That car was one of the nicest cars I ever drove. That 068 cam gave that 428 globs of torque, that car felt like it would just grab long stretches of road and put you on the other end in an instant.. I saw a 65 2+2 421 tri power, three on the tree..

There was a way to make the shifter faster by making it shorter but it also made it slightly harder...

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Stuart

With a six cylinder engine, it had to be a Canadian Pontiac.

After 49 years it's tough to remember, every detail. I always thought it was a Catalina, but to think back on it now. I really didn't work on it, and I know a 69 B body shouldn't have an inline 6 in it.

I clearly saw the engine from maybe 20 feet away because the hood was up. It was painted metallic blue just like the V8s were, but thinking back now it very well could have been a Parisienne/Laurentian. The drivers door was open too, so I did see 3 pedals and a column shift as I walked by it.

So being so close to Canada, looking back on it now it may very well have been a Laurentian. I located a pic on the net that shows a twin to the one I remember. Verdoro green 4 door sedan, and it's a Laurentian. No mention of what engine is in the one I saw on the net.

[59safaricat]

Briefly drove a 1973 Dodge D100 truck slant 6 with 3 on the tree for a while. It was fine on flat roads but the ratios between 2nd and 3rd were too far apart in the hills. Choices were screaming the engine in 2nd or lugging it in 3rd.

A buddy with a mid 80's Chevy truck had 3OTT. I believe that was an option through 1986.

[Diego]

Originally Posted by Will

This is what I'm saying. My experience has been almost exclusively with mid '60s and newer cars and 3otT seems to be exceedingly rare in those years. None of my friends has ever owned one to my knowledge. Never had one in my family except that '64 Nova wagon my brother owned. I can think of a fair number of manual transmission American cars that friends and family have owned over the years and all were floor shifted.

Let's look at a quick sample of cars:

Big Chevys: No 3-speed on floor
Big Pontiacs: 3-speed on floor available as an option for some years, but few. I have numbers somewhere.
Big Oldsmobiles: Had a 3-speed on the floor in 1964 for sure, but my numbers show the column was way more popular.
Big Buicks: Never on the floor, AFAIK.