#81  
Old 02-22-2021, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by grandam1979 View Post
I have found plenty of problems with Edelbrock heads just do a search you will find them to. I have done a lot of research on the speed masters and I seems a lot more positive than negative.
What kind of problems? Are you talking about the ones in like the early to mid-2000s? Because casting and seat issues were gone by say 2006-2008.


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Old 02-22-2021, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud View Post
HYD Flat Tappet Cam sizes for the Street/Strip 455 and 4.25 stroke stuff & IRON HEADS:

High Compr, > 93 Octane to race, about 93 Octane to Street (with light ping on some weather); 245/255 110 LSA. Ref Lunati SPC1-320 or 30705.

Theory by Dave Vizard for the ideal cam (455 & 2.11" valve); 242/237 106 LSA, 102 ILC, but ya gotta custom that. Probably ping with pump gas.
Lunati 30707 238/242 110, less ping, Crane Fireball H-294 238/248 110 LSA for less ping than Vizard.

Optimal Cam for Street/Strip, heavy 10:1 92 Octane; 234/244 112 LSA Ref Wolverine 5059, Old Faithful, Tomahawk TH-02 HF, REF Jim Hand mid 11s Wheels-up 4300 Lb Wagon.
Crower 60211 236/242 108 LSA is close enough here.

Optimal Cam for Street/ Strip, med-light, 89 Octane; RA-IV copies 231/240 cut to 113 LSA Lunati 10703, Crower 60919, REF Cliff Ruggles 11.3 ETs. with Flat-footed street driving

PMD RA III H-cam 9795744, the Smallest Cam i would ever dare 224/236 119 for best of all Street but might ping on 87-89.

MY OPINION:
I prefer SLOW ramps (ADV Dur - 050 Dur > 60*) for safe Lifter-cam follow, least ping.
Medium ramps are ADV Dur - 050 Dur = 50-60: i dunno, just have good spring pressure.
FAST ramps are ADV Dur - 050 Dur < 50* ; lifter-cam disconnect with hi-rpm and weak springs.
I remain fearful of HYD Rollers with IRON HEADS due to fast ramps, yet just fine for Alum Heads.


I am amazed that Comp Cams made the Flat Tappet XE series of 050 Dur 206/212 through 250/256 with FAST FAST ramps. I think the term "Lifter Crashing" was coined by XE lobes. I suggest XE lobes provide enough Ping to overcome the crashing noise! Seriously who uses XE lobes and likes the Reliability and Performance?

Not a 400 engine guy but i think this list is a guide for 3.75" Stroke if 10* of the 050 Dur is removed from the above list. 400s are a wonderful engine, someday...

As for this Thread, HYD Rollers with aluminum heads works but i shudder to think about the ping when using the HYD ROLLER with Iron heads of same 050 durations.
Thanks Mark, good info here.
I think this site relates to the part that I boldfaced:

http://members.uia.net/pkelley2/Overlap.html

Especially at the bottom where it mentions overlap and driveability.

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Old 02-22-2021, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 1968GTO421 View Post
Randy,
I've been thinking about digging out my VISA for a set of these Speedmasters but I always hesitate because concerns as mentioned in this post:

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...5&postcount=61

Hopefully you can give me some reassurance about this problem. To buy the heads and then have my machinist do new valve seats to prevent problems kinda negates the savings over other heads
There have been NO REPORTS - ZERO - ZIP - NADA of any Speedmaster Pontiac head ever losing a seat. We have some pretty serious high spring pressure, solid roller cammed beasts out there with nothing but great thing to say about the heads. Nothing to worry about.

If anyone out there has a report on a seat falling out of a PONTIAC Speedmaster head, not a CHEVY Speedmaster head, by all means report it here!

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Old 02-24-2021, 12:13 PM
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Thanks for posting your setup and results.

I'm currently building almost the same right now so it's good to see what neighborhood it'll be in when done. Using the 112 LSA version of the same cam, 0.040 over 400, speedster heads, 10.25 to 10.5 compression. Love the big fat torque curve (great stuff for the street).

  #85  
Old 02-24-2021, 11:38 PM
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I have a set of E heads form one of the first runs. Hammered on them on my 455 and a solid roller, now on the 500" IA motor with an even bigger cam and have accidentally buzzed it to 7000. KRE hand ported them before they did CNC so big they have pushrod and head bolt tubes and never and issue. Dan Barton touched them up and little and added some spring locators vs just a shim like KRE had. Only issues I've had is oil drainback but most aftermarket heads of many brands do not having the large drain holes of factory iron heads.

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  #86  
Old 02-25-2021, 08:43 PM
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Looks like you did real well with that budget build Jeff, nice numbers. I have a feeling you wont sell the car as originally intended?

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Old 02-26-2021, 07:51 AM
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In regards to all heads made off shore , I think they are all made with powered metal seats, and if so this is a short coming I would want to know about!

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  #88  
Old 02-26-2021, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by steve25 View Post
In regards to all heads made off shore , I think they are all made with powered metal seats, and if so this is a short coming I would want to know about!
The Pontiac Speedmaster heads have Ductile Iron seats. I would think if you want to knock a product you should have facts not "I think". Everyone can "think" whatever they want, but those with the "facts" are in the ones in the "know".

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Old 02-26-2021, 11:25 PM
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I've come and gone on these boards for years. This is exactly the reason why. I don't have an unlimited budget. I have priorities beyond just that Pontiac sitting in the drive.

You post what you've done. Or what you'd like to do. No matter what it is, there's always a jerk or two that tell you why your build is crap if you're not sinking 2500 or more in a set of heads. A high dollar crank or roller cam.

It was asked how much better the OPs engine would run with KRE heads etc. How much more power would that garden variety dime a dozen SBC put out if you put on a twin turbo set up? Comparably, I'm not impressed with your combo either. We all do things according to a budget or a planned outcome. Not necessarily to be the fastest car in the state.

I think it's pretty freakin' sad when someone that's been around long enough to be a so called "ultimate warrior" would belittle someone like that.

Thanks OP for your post. It'll be a fun car! I guess I had hoped it might be different this time. I've got no desire to be affiliated with self important, "my car is better than your car" simpletons.

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Old 02-27-2021, 12:53 AM
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steve25
"It's not so much the seats and there press fit into the ,its how hard the Aluminum as a whole has been tempered which aids in supporting the seats above a certain amount of spring seat pressure."

"In regards to all heads made off shore , I think they are all made with powered metal seats, and if so this is a short coming I would want to know about!"

PJ - Where do you come up with this crap? How do feel about conspiracy theories?

How many Speedmaster heads have you purchased and tested in your laboratory in securing such results? I wanna see da facts. Arghhhh.

  #91  
Old 02-27-2021, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by BDH79TA View Post
I've come and gone on these boards for years. This is exactly the reason why. I don't have an unlimited budget. I have priorities beyond just that Pontiac sitting in the drive.

You post what you've done. Or what you'd like to do. No matter what it is, there's always a jerk or two that tell you why your build is crap if you're not sinking 2500 or more in a set of heads. A high dollar crank or roller cam.

It was asked how much better the OPs engine would run with KRE heads etc. How much more power would that garden variety dime a dozen SBC put out if you put on a twin turbo set up? Comparably, I'm not impressed with your combo either. We all do things according to a budget or a planned outcome. Not necessarily to be the fastest car in the state.

I think it's pretty freakin' sad when someone that's been around long enough to be a so called "ultimate warrior" would belittle someone like that.

Thanks OP for your post. It'll be a fun car! I guess I had hoped it might be different this time. I've got no desire to be affiliated with self important, "my car is better than your car" simpletons.
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  #92  
Old 02-27-2021, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Murf View Post
...Isn’t that way to much clearance? I thought you aimed for .060 or so from coil bind...
Way I understand it is getting close (.060") to coil bind dampens high RPM harmonics. There's some cool high speed videos showing valve springs dancing around, but the harmonics occur way over our RPM range.

An area where incorrrect advice can be given is timing. Unless you have set the crank at true TDC and set the timing cover and balancer in place and verified marks, you are only guessing your numbers are correct. Almost always see an error with the combination of new covers and/or balancers being up to 4° off. Old factory stuff is much closer but still can be 2° either way. Doesn't matter if setting timing on the dyno since engine will be set at optimum level, but the reported timing can be much different than actual. So the 28°, 30°, or 32° for Kaufman's might physically be very close to the same timing.

Some of the first gen Avenger carbs had problems, but ran good at full throttle where they straightened out. Idle and off-idle transition sucked on some of them.

Have seen some errors on the same dyno when the strain gauge went out of whack in the middle of the day. Don't know the proper name of that piece of equipment, but about an hours worth of down time got the replacement installed by their crew and we were back making pulls. From what I've seen just normal wear and physical variances will change readings no matter how precise the software happens to be.

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  #93  
Old 02-27-2021, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lust4speed View Post
Way I understand it is getting close (.060") to coil bind dampens high RPM harmonics. There's some cool high speed videos showing valve springs dancing around, but the harmonics occur way over our RPM range.

An area where incorrrect advice can be given is timing. Unless you have set the crank at true TDC and set the timing cover and balancer in place and verified marks, you are only guessing your numbers are correct. Almost always see an error with the combination of new covers and/or balancers being up to 4° off. Old factory stuff is much closer but still can be 2° either way. Doesn't matter if setting timing on the dyno since engine will be set at optimum level, but the reported timing can be much different than actual. So the 28°, 30°, or 32° for Kaufman's might physically be very close to the same timing.

Some of the first gen Avenger carbs had problems, but ran good at full throttle where they straightened out. Idle and off-idle transition sucked on some of them.

Have seen some errors on the same dyno when the strain gauge went out of whack in the middle of the day. Don't know the proper name of that piece of equipment, but about an hours worth of down time got the replacement installed by their crew and we were back making pulls. From what I've seen just normal wear and physical variances will change readings no matter how precise the software happens to be.
Strain gauge is what I have always heard it called. The dyno needs to be regularly checked for calibration. There is a hanger that is placed on the dyno and a weight is placed on the hanger. Then you check to see what the dyno shows for that weight.

Stan

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  #94  
Old 03-03-2021, 11:28 PM
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I'm getting ready to dyno another motor with a set of speedmaster heads
that I bought from Randy did my own porting to them too.
As far as the quality of the heads compaired to the eddy's, I pic the
speedmaster heads. I'll post the dyno results soon.

GT.

  #95  
Old 03-04-2021, 08:58 AM
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Spring locators are a must, especially on aluminum heads, surprised they don't all come with them already installed.

I like the fact that there is a new kid on the block, maybe this will further pressure Edelbrock etc to make pricing more competitive. Still blows me away at the pricing disparity. Gouging is the only plausible comment on how pricing is set.

A bare chebbie SpeedMaster head is $280, $600 for an E-head. $730 for a Pontiac, and that's since the price drop. Let's hope they drop them more.


.

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Old 03-04-2021, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueghoast View Post
I'm getting ready to dyno another motor with a set of speedmaster heads

that I bought from Randy did my own porting to them too.

As far as the quality of the heads compaired to the eddy's, I pic the

speedmaster heads. I'll post the dyno results soon.



GT.


Looking forward to your results!

Murf


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  #97  
Old 03-04-2021, 02:47 PM
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Thanks for taking the time to post your dyno results. I think you did very well on your build but I have always been partial to 400's so I am biased.

Great work!

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Old 03-04-2021, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
Spring locators are a must, especially on aluminum heads, surprised they don't all come with them already installed.

I like the fact that there is a new kid on the block, maybe this will further pressure Edelbrock etc to make pricing more competitive. Still blows me away at the pricing disparity. Gouging is the only plausible comment on how pricing is set.

A bare chebbie SpeedMaster head is $280, $600 for an E-head. $730 for a Pontiac, and that's since the price drop. Let's hope they drop them more.


.
Not disagreeing at all, just want to point out that "Made in America" costs more. Not a comment on quality or anything other than the fact it simply costs more to manufacture the very same product in this country as it would to make it in China. Of course, I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but there's no way E heads will ever be as cheap as Speedmasters as long as they're made where they are, and Chebby Es will always be cheaper than Pontiacs simply because of demand and market size.

Related to the OP: Thanks for sharing the results of your build. I think it's very helpful and cool to have this kind of information shared to the community and I hope that more people will share the results of their builds no matter what components were used or what the results were.

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Old 03-05-2021, 03:59 PM
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[QUOTE=lust4speed;6229164]Way I understand it is getting close (.060") to coil bind dampens high RPM harmonics. There's some cool high speed videos showing valve springs dancing around, but the harmonics occur way over our RPM range.


I'm trying to find the best valve spring for my cam (5500 rpm max?) and am going nuts trying to figure the lift vs coil bind vs the crazy harmonics. What is the rpm range that I should be real concerned about on this. Thank you.

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  #100  
Old 03-05-2021, 05:37 PM
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Not disagreeing at all, just want to point out that "Made in America" costs more. Not a comment on quality or anything other than the fact it simply costs more to manufacture the very same product in this country as it would to make it in China. Of course, I'm not telling you anything you don't know, but there's no way E heads will ever be as cheap as Speedmasters as long as they're made where they are, and Chebby Es will always be cheaper than Pontiacs simply because of demand and market size.
Given that the R&D costs have been wrung out of these heads a long time ago and that they are run in batches when demand calls for it, there's no reason other than additional material (anyone know the weight difference between an SBC and Pontiac Edelbrock head?) or additional machining costs for the heads to be any different in cost than an SBC that they make other than they CAN charge it if people keep buying them.

Pontiac heads go for about $200 more than the equivalent SBC head, based on a quick look at Summit's website. If you keep paying it, they'll keep charging it. Unfortunately, our community is significantly smaller than the Chevy folks with limited options.

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