Pontiac - Boost Turbo, supercharged, Nitrous, EFI & other Power Adders discussed here.

          
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Old 02-16-2020, 04:31 PM
takid455 takid455 is offline
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Default multiport EFI & distributorless system for your Pontiac

Toss that carb and distributor! Multiport EFI and DIstributorless ignition is available for your beloved Pontiac engine! I designed it for my personal car and due to its success, looking to offer this to others. The system uses off the shelf parts (sensors, ECU*, coils, throttle body, ect) with the exception of the cam & crank triggers and sensor housings which I designed. It is the LS1/6 ECU (aka 0411)* running your old school engine. You get all of the modern conveniences. No more cold weather warm ups or carb inconveniences. Turn the key and go. Could even remote start if desired with additional controls. (not recommended for manual trans cars for obvious reasons). Will control your fans, AC and transmission too if running one of the newer overdrives.
The test bed was my 78 Trans am with 455(474) & T56 transmission, 3.73 rear & 26" tire. On our trip to Ohio (1300 miles round trip), we averaged 17 mpg & 20 mpg on the highway tanks. Performance improved as well. Starting cold or hot is a simple twist of the key just like you'd expect your from your newer daily driver. Driveability is very smooth; even compared to the older throttle body system which was previously installed.
*NOTE: You are not limited to using the GM ECU. Other aftermarket ECUs can work with this as long as they accept hall-effect signals for the cam and crank signals. I know Megasquirt & Haltech. The Holley ECUís may be able to work as as well. This is currently a 24x , 1x trigger setup. If there is enough interest, a 58x , 4x trigger system can be made available. ECU tuning will depend on which ECU you ultimately choose.
Looking to see who would be interested in both possible future purchase and those ready to purchase now to see if the venture is viable. Some parts are made, having one part revised and made.
.You will get crank & cam triggers & housings, new Pioneer 18.1 SFI balancer w/ crank trigger along with composite distributor gear. Remaining parts & wiring are on the end user at this point in time. A list will be provided. Introductory pricing is 1100 + shipping. If you provide your own balancer & gear, deduct 375. I can install this setup on your car as an option. You will need to get it to NJ.
This is not intended to be a low budget system although it can be if you are handy. There are a few cheap throttle body (glorified carburetor) systems out there as well as higher cost ones. Idea behind this was to use readily available parts that most stores would carry that would also provide modern tech to the Pontiac engine.

Reply or PM. Need to clean out the PM box. You can also email me
info at second gen engineering dot com
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1972 HO Trans Am auto White/white
1974 SD Trans Am 4 spd, no a/c dk blue/ white & blue
1978 Trans am gold/ black ,T56, t tops, EFI 474,
Build: http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...1978+g+machine
1999 30th Trans Am 6 spd, T top
The Following User Says Thank You to takid455 For This Useful Post:
  #2  
Old 02-16-2020, 05:26 PM
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That's pretty cool you retrofit the old 0411 ECU to work. They're a pretty versatile box and underated in my opinion. The only negative I have with them is that they can be fun to troubleshoot issues, but experience can help there.

I've been running distributorless MPFI for years now, and have had it running a flex fuel composition sensor for the last year with both e85 and pump gas table blending. Best thing I ever did!

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Old 02-16-2020, 05:26 PM
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Looks like a nice kit. I understand firsthand the amount of work involved in both parts selection/compatibility, fabrication, and installation of a system like this on a Pontiac. Looks like a fair price point too. Good luck with your venture.

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Old 02-16-2020, 10:08 PM
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Really nice job with that! Can you share more details about how you designed/built the crank and cam trigger system?

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Old 02-17-2020, 10:06 AM
takid455 takid455 is offline
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I went with the 0411 mainly for the cable throttle body & shaker clearance. Otherwise, the E38 DBW ECU would have been the choice. You can use the P59 ECU which is the 0411 w/ 1 MB of RAM. Both 0411 & P59 have flex fuel capabilities. While I am currently not using that feature, I have pondered bringing it online. Either unit will work and both have been proven in factory applications for a few billion miles.

Troubleshooting has been in positive as it helped identify a few things when I first put the system in operation. I had a 'CEL' made in place of the seat belt telltale in the factory speedo. Do enjoy the precise tuning abilities which allow you to adjust specific areas/ cells. Good luck doing that with a carb.

Spent many hours with different designs. Finally decided on the current. Will probably redesign the crank sensor holder with less adjustability for more plug & play in the future. For now, it works. Crank trigger mimics the LS 24x unit which has the inverse wheel . Its 2 triggers mounted together. Sensor holder mounts off the fuel pump block off plate and is adjustable back & forth for different width balancers and radially to dial in the timing. By dialing in , I am referencing engine timing to the ECU/ trigger so the sensor knows where TDC (0 deg) is. I set the timing tables to an arbitrary number say 25 deg. Then with a timing light, position the sensor such that the timing tab/ balancer reads 25 deg or whatever you choose. This correlates the 2 and now its all handled in the tables. This is the design I'd like to eliminate so its plug & play but wanted the adjustment initial until I could pin point exact sensor placement. There is roughly 10 deg of allowable movement. No need to cheat it as you do all yours timing in the tables, just want the 2 to be accurate.

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Old 02-17-2020, 10:40 AM
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I'd think it's better to leave the adjustability in the crank sensor mount. It will allow for correction in case of tolerance stack, etc. Everyone should expect to verify crank timing, as it is so critical.

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Old 02-17-2020, 12:01 PM
takid455 takid455 is offline
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I like the adjustability too. Looking for idiot proof some things. However, this is a more advanced system than some of the other cheaper glorified carbs out there.

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1972 HO Trans Am auto White/white
1974 SD Trans Am 4 spd, no a/c dk blue/ white & blue
1978 Trans am gold/ black ,T56, t tops, EFI 474,
Build: http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...1978+g+machine
1999 30th Trans Am 6 spd, T top
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Old 02-17-2020, 12:43 PM
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I think as long as you emphasize in the instructions to verify the crank timing with a timing light you'll be good. Bold, italicized, repeated during the set up and start up section, etc.

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Old 03-28-2020, 10:16 PM
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This sounds like something I will be interested in when i get my Bird back together. I was planning on running the Holley Dominator set up. Would like to run a 58x , 4x trigger system... It would be controlling a MPFI TT 496 (455) with a LS 105 electronic throttle body and a TH400 (or 4L80E) with Gear Vendor.

Would this run individual coils?

SPEED SAFE, NICK

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Old 03-31-2020, 11:21 AM
takid455 takid455 is offline
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Nick

This setup does take advantage of the individual coil packs as shown in the posted pictures. You would better utilize the setup with the 4L80 vs the 400.

Currently, it is setup for the 24x. I do have the 58x components designed but not in production. Should enough interest arise, I do not have issues producing the 58x components. You could still use the 24x system with a DBW PCM with an available adapter box from Lingenfelter.

24x would use the 0411 or P59 PCM
58x would use the E38 (and others) PCM

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Old 03-31-2020, 01:46 PM
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What are you doing for a cam sensor? As part of a distributorless oil pump drive?

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Old 04-01-2020, 09:33 AM
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What are you doing for a cam sensor?

Using a 3 wire hall effect sensor.


As part of a distributorless oil pump drive?

It is integrated into the oil pump drive 'distributor' shaft. Top half runs the cam sensor/ signal while the lower part (block surface down) operates just like a traditional distributor/ oil pump drive. Only stocks out about 2" above the block surface.

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Old 04-01-2020, 10:21 AM
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1978 Black & Gold T/A [complete 70 Ram Air III (carb to pan) PQ and 12 bolt], fully loaded, deluxe, WS6, T-Top car - 1972 Formula 455HO Ram Air numbers matching Julep Green - 1971 T/A 455, 320 CFM Eheads, RP cam, Doug's headers, Fuel injection, TKX 5 Spd. 12 Bolt 3.73, 4 wheel disc. All A/C cars
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Old 04-01-2020, 05:25 PM
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I currently have my CV-1 4500 intake @ Marcella Manifolds getting it converted to MPFI. I sent and Accufab throttle body and a super sucker along and having everything matched to the intake /carb throat...it currently has a cloverleaf design. I'd be very interested in seeing where this goes. Whatever is the latest and greatest is what I'm wantin'! Keep us up to date! I'll be ready to jump into the "MPFI pool" head first soon enough.

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Old 04-05-2020, 10:33 PM
takid455 takid455 is offline
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Bnick166 & others

I have 12 -15 sets of parts made. Currently having crank trigger wheels made per the revised design along with mounting tooling.

This project is moving forward.

When I get some time, I will post/ link a video of my car that has the system currently starting, driving, ect.

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Old 05-18-2020, 09:04 AM
takid455 takid455 is offline
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Made a short video of the system running in the car. Been flawlessly operating for the past year since it was installed.

https://youtu.be/vhTHRymPSlM
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1972 HO Trans Am auto White/white
1974 SD Trans Am 4 spd, no a/c dk blue/ white & blue
1978 Trans am gold/ black ,T56, t tops, EFI 474,
Build: http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...1978+g+machine
1999 30th Trans Am 6 spd, T top
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Old 05-18-2020, 10:53 AM
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Nice job, and nice car.

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Old 05-18-2020, 11:56 AM
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If you are ready to market this, please let me know. donaldjkeefe@aol.com or 585-489-9826.

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Old 05-18-2020, 12:05 PM
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What ignition s are you using for your system.

Not the normal "COP" (coil on plug) or "CNP" (coil near plug) configurations normally used.
Coils and bracket to mount them really nice work but they take up a lot of space it appears.

Tom V.

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Old 05-18-2020, 06:40 PM
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That's awesome man! 0411 PCM's you can't really go wrong with considering how cheap they are and readily available.

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