[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

That's right, Jeff; IF it can be documented and PROVEN......

The car in the farmer's ditch didn't (allegedly) move halfway across the country after it was junked, and it's owner always knew where it was. And he could prove it.

[63Banshee]

Scott (B.N.P.), can you prove it isn't the real deal? The burden of proof is on the Prosecution...

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

I'm simply asking questions; questions that nobody is able, nor wants, to answer.

The chirping of crickets here pretty much confirms what everybody else (over age 55) already knows.

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jeff Hamlin:
Hey, If an old Tempest race car can be dug out from a farmers ditch and then resurrected...
I would think anything is possible! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true...but the time from when that car was dumped in the ditch to the time it was dug out was accounted for. This car has a 3 year hole in its provenance that nobody seems to be able to explain.

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 63Banshee:
Scott (B.N.P.), can you prove it isn't the real deal? The burden of proof is on the Prosecution... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true in this case. If that car were for sale, it is up to the seller to prove its provenance...not the buyer.

3 years and hundred of miles from Philly to Chicago is a pretty big hole to fill...and nobody's talking.

Maybe Gartzman knows where Garfinkle is?

[STANLEY KNIFE]

Surely this would only be an issue if the car was offered for sale, has it been???

If not enjoy it for what it is, not what it may or may not be.

Dave

[63Banshee]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Not true in this case. If that car were for sale, it is up to the seller to prove its provenance...not the buyer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What I stated is true. The car is NOT up for sale, the questions are NOT directed toward the current owner, therefore all this rolling-eyed accusation without supporting facts is unsubstantiated. So, I ask those so interested in seeking the truth at the expense of others, where is THEIR proof to support THEIR argument? I get the feeling fact backed truth isn't the goal here.

Don't tell me Pontiac enthusiasts are taking a page from Corvette enthusiast's book now...

[63Banshee]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by STANLEY KNIFE:
Surely this would only be an issue if the car was offered for sale, has it been???

If not enjoy it for what it is, not what it may or may not be.

Dave </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You've got it together, friend!

[pont406]

while there is a "hole" in the history of this car, it's not impossible that the car couldn't have been bought out of the junkyard, and put back on the track, ending up in Chicago, Is your source 100% reliable? example: Dick Landy's 65 A F/X car went from southern California, to Toledo Ohio, from there it spent 18 years in Iowa, before a friend of mine bought it! another thing to think about is, Randy bought this car in 1982! way before this type of car was worth anything to most people.and why if he was "cloning" 1 of the SD wagons, why the Union Park car? as all 6 SD wagons are unaccounted for, wouldn't the Royal car, or Arnie's car, be worth more money in the long run, because of name reconignition? I've been told by people who knew Randy, that he's been collecting SD cars and parts since the late 60's, early 70's. so he was way ahead of the game, compared to most of us. Mike Garfinkel would be the next step in the ownership trail! try Pete Mcarthy?

[J Brady]

Bryan, knowing the people involved I would bet that the documentation is their. I don't know why you quetion Randy's and scott's integrity.

[sdbob]

I agree.Randy was a true GENTLEMEN in all of our dealings.He was a plus for our hobby.Wished I had known him many years before.In the old High Output news letters his name is in there buying.

[CH3NO2 Pontiac]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j brady:
Bryan, knowing the people involved I would bet that the documentation is their. I don't know why you quetion scott's integrity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Follow the money." -- Deep Throat.

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j brady:
Bryan, knowing the people involved I would bet that the documentation is their. I don't know why you quetion Randy's and scott's integrity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1.) Admits to doing rebodies.
2.) Admits to restamping blocks.
3.) Embraces the efficacy of doing such.

[cat tracker]

I have tracked and found SD cars over the years. I don't see anything strange about a car being seen in a salvage yard and several years later being in another state. These old cars move around the USA on a regular basis and most of them don't run. I knew Randy Williams. He was a Class Act and he was honest. He would not have built a fake.

Personally I find the black roadster with the roll bar, sitting on the other side of the SD wagon pretty interesting. The Unser's built a car that looked like that one and ran it at Pike's Peak. I wonder if that is the same car? Dwight Sr.

[Brian Baker]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dwight Crawford:
I knew Randy Williams. He was a Class Act and he was honest. He would not have built a fake. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't speaking of Randy.

[oldcarnut]

Dwight, The black roadster is an early 1950's allard. i am not sure which model without seeing the front. The shop i work at restored a k-2 with a 331 ci. hemi. That little bastard flew. They are basically an english built kit car. You could order the body and spec any engine available at the time. Most had flathead fords, Early ohv cadillac v8 and chrysler hemi power. Here is a pic of a j2 i think it might be one of these. http://www.automotiverestorations.com

[cat tracker]

Gary: Thanks for the clarification. The last and only one I ever saw was on a Road Race Circuit in the 1950's. It had a Cadillac engine and to me was a "Hot Rod". He was blowing the doors off the Factory Porsche and Jaguar race cars. - Dwight Sr.

[Stuart]

The Unser car was a classic style 50's sprint car. This picture ran in Hot Rod magazine back in 1963.

[cat tracker]

Stuart: That picture is a different car than the one I saw in Denver at a Swap Meet several years ago. It was black and was a two seater roadster. It had a long nose on it and had a small block Chevrolet. It had been up Pike's Peak Hill Climb and then converted to run on the street.
Sorry guys didn't mean to Hijack you 63 SD post. - Dwight Sr.

[tom s]

back to the SD wagon.The Union Park wagon was ordered for a customer that canceled the car.It was raced by a couple diff guys including Harold Ramsey.In the fall of 64 Bill Blair and a friend of his bought the car and it was financed by GMAC for the $2300 range.Bill bought the car with a broken transaxle and had it repaired and broke it right away.He put in a 61 big car rear with a hydro trans.The car was sold to a guy in FLA who pulled the SD engine and then the car was sold to Garfinkle.The car was never totaled but had run off the end of a drag strip and had front end damage.As Mr Blair puts it ANYONE that says Randys car is not the real car is a f--kin LIAR.This was told to me by Bill just today.FYI,Tom