[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Elkykid

I checked the PHS invoice the rally II wheels and the tires are individual items on the invoice but no the trim rings are not on the invoice. Interesting.

since your car came standard with steel wheels, the optional Rally II wheels came with trim rings.
Your tires dictated what size wheels you had.
So if you had on the PHS:
- raised white letter F70-14
- Rally II wheels options
That would have netted you the 14"(x7") Rally II wheels with those tires, and n/c trim rings.

If your car had not tire option, and the Rally II wheels; you would have netted 14"(x7") Rally II wheels with F70-14 blackwall tires, and n/c trim rings.

If you had trim rings shown, then you had the standard steel wheels with trim rings.

Make sense?

My car is a 'no tire', 'no wheel' option car;
So I had black wall tires on 14x7" 'CL' steel wheels.

I have actually found the minutia of these details to be quite fascinating to unravel.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by Elkykid

I checked the PHS invoice the rally II wheels and the tires are individual items on the invoice but no the trim rings are not on the invoice. Interesting.

That's what I expected would be the case.

Rally II wheels, regardless of size, generally included trim rings. They only came without them on special models like the Judge and Trans Am. So on a Formula with Rally IIs, the trim rings would show up on the build sheet, but not the invoice (since they weren't priced separately, but included with the wheel).

GM Canada docs generally read more like a build sheet than an invoice.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by keith k

...
GM Canada docs generally read more like a build sheet than an invoice.

absolutely correct;
The GM Canada has options, and some of the standard equipment shown, so you have to be able to know how to read the difference.
I am not certain on the criteria the Mr Zappora uses when he lists items for the vehicle he is working on at any time.
I do like how he includes the number of like vehicles.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by unruhjonny

absolutely correct;
The GM Canada has options, and some of the standard equipment shown, so you have to be able to know how to read the difference.
I am not certain on the criteria the Mr Zappora uses when he lists items for the vehicle he is working on at any time.
I do like how he includes the number of like vehicles.

It's a neat extra level of documentation available to the Canada-sold cars.

BTW, my blue/blue TA was delivered originally in Calgary. It says hello to its former neighbors

[eaglesan13]

It was originally Lucern blue with deluxe black interior and Honeycomb rims, but the car was painted a darker blue by a prior owner. If you do a search on this site, there is a thread on the car which lists the options, but I have not posted on that thread in quite a while.

Originally Posted by Elkykid

What color is your formula? Do you have a number of options?

[Elkykid]

Well it has been a while since my last reply I have been busy with other projects but now it's time to work on the formula. I started in early October and so far have removed the windshield and rear glass. I then cut off the rear wheel flares that were braze welded in place solidly. The car only had rust on rear wheel lips and outer rear wheel houses. I have removed the passenger side rear quarter and outer wheel house. The Norwood plant used ample red primer.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The Norwood plant used ample red primer.

They dipped those Norwood bodies in tanks of primer after they were jigged up.
Firewall back, no doors or trunklids installed.

I can't remember now if they used electro-static/electro-magnetic or some other special method to enhance the results. Someone else here will remember more details.

Would be a pure ungodly mess of excess puddles runs sags drips if we dipped one into a tank ourselves.

[Elkykid]

That makes sense I didn't realize the car was dipped but the backside of the quarter panels are red so now I understand. The factory did a poor job applying the rubberized texture on the backside of quarters and crudely applied the trunk spatter over top.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

They dipped those Norwood bodies in tanks of primer after they were jigged up.
Firewall back, no doors or trunklids installed.

I can't remember now if they used electro-static/electro-magnetic or some other special method to enhance the results. Someone else here will remember more details.

Would be a pure ungodly mess of excess puddles runs sags drips if we dipped one into a tank ourselves.

Sorry to disagree here, but the Fisher body Camaros and Firebirds made in Norwood were completely submerged on a assy line in the primer Bay. The bodies ALL had DOORS and Deck lid INSTALLED. Door latches, trunk latches installed as well. Doors and deck lid were propped open. Sometime during 71 the bodies and paint got charged, and the lacquer became a partial e dip .
I have parted plenty with the drips still in the primer underbody area, especially trunk as it was last out if the tank.

[Elkykid]

Appreciate the reply I see evidence of what your saying over the entire car the more I look. The door striker plate is completely red I have not removed the door panels to fully examine the doors. The donor roof I have for the car is also completely red on the underside. One of the prior owners installed hurst T-Tops so I have to replace the roof.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

There is a famous picture of the assembly line bodies going through the primer tank.
It was during the strike/shutdown and the line was stopped dead.
Some car(s) were partially going into the drink, some stuck in the drink, and some partially coming out.
They sat that way until the strike was over.
We suspect those bodies were scrapped.

Been so long since i have viewed that picture i didn't remember them having any bolt-on panels installed.

Just a shame they didn't use a zinc based primer instead of the red lacquer base primer.

[Formulabruce]

Here is one of a few that are out there. This has the trunk lid shut, but I have other going with it open. Note doors are ajar.

[unruhjonny]

man oh man, I wish my car was that solid.

Mine is currently in a similar state (and has been for a couple months) but I popped off the drivers side quarter.

[eaglesan13]

Deja Vu, I've had to rebuild the back end of one of these cars before and it's a lot of work, but if your inner structure isn't rotted, that should make the repairs a little easier.

If you need some reference pictures showing how the factory applied the sound deadener to the inside of the quarter panels, I can post some for you.

Do you know what size of front and rear sway bars you have?

Elkykid? Is that a reference to El Camino's?

Originally Posted by Elkykid

Well it has been a while since my last reply I have been busy with other projects but now it's time to work on the formula. I started in early October and so far have removed the windshield and rear glass. I then cut off the rear wheel flares that were braze welded in place solidly. The car only had rust on rear wheel lips and outer rear wheel houses. I have removed the passenger side rear quarter and outer wheel house. The Norwood plant used ample red primer.

[Elkykid]

Yes Elky Kid pertains to a large number of el caminos i have owned mostly 1970 super sports. My dream car would be 1970 LS6 Elky. I have just missed a number of times acquire one.

When I purchased the Formula the gentleman that sold me the car had purchased full quarter panels from Desert Valley in Arizona and had the quarters sent by air freight to Canada. Both quarters were complete with inner and outer wheel houses. I have since dismantled the components. I have a nice passenger side frame rail I do not need. My car only had rear wheel lip rust damage.

[eaglesan13]

I recently inherited my father-in-law's 1970 El Camino. He bought it used in 1972, so it's been in the family for almost 50 years. It's in very nice original condition, but unfortunately it's not a Super Sport or big block car.

I asked about your sway bar size because your (Canadian) PHS shows your car was built with 15 inch tires. My 71 HO car was also built with 15 inch tires (with honeycombs). My car has the trans am sway bars even though there is no suspension option listed on the PHS. Your PHS does not show a suspension option either, (hence my question about your sway bars).

Originally Posted by Elkykid

Yes Elky Kid pertains to a large number of el caminos i have owned mostly 1970 super sports. My dream car would be 1970 LS6 Elky. I have just missed a number of times acquire one.

When I purchased the Formula the gentleman that sold me the car had purchased full quarter panels from Desert Valley in Arizona and had the quarters sent by air freight to Canada. Both quarters were complete with inner and outer wheel houses. I have since dismantled the components. I have a nice passenger side frame rail I do not need. My car only had rear wheel lip rust damage.

[Elkykid]

Love those El caminos. My canadian buildsheet and phs documents don't call out suspension package. Funny the canadian documents don't call out safe t track but phs documents do call out safe t track. I think the cowl tag calls out WS6.

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[unruhjonny]

for many years there was a 1969 El Camino SS396/4spd car just around the corner from my house - just off of a somewhat busy roadway;
As far as I know it was the real deal... but it was getting crusty.
This past spring it went to the lower mainland (southern B.C.), and is (apparently) being driven and enjoyed pretty much as purchased.

It had a bunch of "day 2" type modifications to it, but I think the original stuff was all there, and went with the car.

[unruhjonny]

Originally Posted by Elkykid

... My canadian buildsheet and phs documents don't call out suspension package. Funny the canadian documents don't call out safe t track but phs documents do call out safe t track. I think the cowl tag calls out WS6.

the cowl tag shows nothing in reguard to drivetrain;

Your cowl tag will show W66 which is the code for a Formula.

Although Mr Zappora (Canadian Vintage Vehicle Services) does sometimes appear to have no rhyme or reason for the option codes he shows, I do believe that there is a pecking order of sorts that is used to determine what is shown;
You can also contact them to confirm that an option code your car has wasn't accidentally left off the invoice.

Keep in mind that on anything less than the Trans Am, a posi was an option;
So even though yours is a Formula 455, that doesn't mean it had a posi from the factory - but odds are if it was absent, it was added at a later time -like with my car.

I also believe that the suspension package would be something that George Zappora would typically show on your historical packet;
What I believe was being asked, was being asked because some cars which had stand alone optional 15" wheels didn't have the option for the upsized sway bars - and some cars with the wheel option and no suspension option appear to have been built with the larger bars.

[eaglesan13]

The PHS on my 71 Formula 455HO car lists the safe-t-track, but does not list the performance axle option (3.73's). The GM of Canada docs show option H05 (3.73 gears) and G80 (safe-t-track).

Recently there was a 1971 Formula 455HO car for sale in Reno Nevada. The seller had the PHS and a broadcast sheet from the Los Angeles assembly plant. The PHS shows the car was equipped with 15 inch tires and Rally II rims, but there is no suspension option listed. However, the broadcast sheet shows "F41 Spec Perf Susp". (I've attached copies of the PHS and broadcast sheet).

I called the people at GM of Canada Vintage Vehicle Services and asked if the microfilm on my car listed F41 suspension. They said no, and that they did not even show that as an option. They said the bigger sway bars were part of the 15 inch tire option.

Originally Posted by Elkykid

Love those El caminos. My canadian buildsheet and phs documents don't call out suspension package. Funny the canadian documents don't call out safe t track but phs documents do call out safe t track. I think the cowl tag calls out WS6.Attachment 576884Attachment 576885Attachment 576886Attachment 576887

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