[cdoggy81]

Any updates???

[pontiac_banshee]

I got my axles back this weekend. I ended up finding a guy that races off road that breaks allot of parts so he has a lathe. I have to go tonight and get some 1/4" longer studs as that is what is required to make up the extra thickness of the rotors. Look for pictures and information on the E-Brake cables that have to be custom built. I will get a total so far of what this has cost.

[myckee]

The HPP article is a lot cheaper than you think for the S10 swap once you know what you need and where to get it. BEWARE: The HPP article's part numbers are only partially correct and the descriptions of the parts are only partial as well.

I bought all of the GM parts from www.partszoneonline.com. They don't rip you off with shipping like gmpd does and they ship to Canada via USPS so you arent shafted with brokerage charges etc.

For a complete New GM backing plate kit which includes dust sheild, ebrake shoe and all of the other parts on the plate you are looking at ~$115 US per side

The locally bought semi loaded calipers which include the caliper bracket cost me ~$85 CAN per side
The locally bought rotors were ~$35 CAN per side

Current total including shipping: $500 CAN

All that is left are ebrake cables and flex hoses and brake pads.

I like the s10 kit becasue it is literally a bolt on part. No custom anything except the ebrake cables! I currently have the original WS6 rear discs now, and and junking them in favor of these. The ws6 kits work well in the short term, but after a couple of years they turn into maintenance nightmares, not to mention rebuilt calipers cost an arm and a leg and they are a pain in the ass to set up.

[cdoggy81]

Good to know!
BTW, I did a search on HPP's website & couldn't find anything. Anyone know what month/year/issue? I would really like to read this & compare it to the other "kits".

[myckee]

Originally Posted by cdoggy81

Good to know!
BTW, I did a search on HPP's website & couldn't find anything. Anyone know what month/year/issue? I would really like to read this & compare it to the other "kits".

It is in the june 2006 issue.

I found this link to it online:

http://rapidshare.com/files/54984618...rofit.PDF.html

As I said some of the info in the article is only partially correct. You can use the parts from either a 2WD truck or from a 4WD truck. The only difference between the two are the position of the calipers. For most this will not be an issue, but for 2nd gen F body owners, you have to be careful on what you buy.

The 4WD version puts the caliper on the Driver side at 11 o'clock (perfect for 2nd gen F-body) and puts the Passenger side at 2 o'clock (NOT perfect for 2nd gen f-body as it interferes with staggered shocks).

The 2WD version puts the Driver side at 2 o'clock (NOT perfect for 2nd gen f-body as it interferes with staggered shocks) and puts the Passenger side at 11 o'clock (perfect for 2nd gen F-body).

So for a 2nd gen F-body you will want to buy a DS 4WD kit and a PS 2WD kit. This will allow you to have the calipers in the correct position AND have the e-brake brackets facing toward front of car for easy hook up.

Alternatively, for a 2nd gen F-body, if you cannot find a DS 4WD plate and a PS 2WD plate at the scrap yard, and do not wish to buy new, but you can find multiple 4WD or multiple 2WD donors, you can use 2 DS 4WD plates, one on each side, or 2 PS 2WD plates. However one e-brake bracket will be facing to the rear of the car and will make hook-up harder. If you don't care about ebrakes, than this will not be of concern.

For all other cars besides 2nd gen F-bodies, or any other car that does not have staggered shocks like the f-body, then you can just find either a single 2wd donor or a 4WD donor and use both sides. The ebrakes will be in the correct position and the position of the calipers will not make any difference, except for asthetics.

[myckee]

Here are the various part numbers for the 2WD and the 4WD parts:

4WD:
88935985 (Left Backing plate)
88935987 (Left Sheild)

88935986 (Right Backing plate)
88935988 (Right Sheild)

88935980 (2 Required, one for each side- Brake kit which includes lever, rod, pawls, e-brake lining and springs)

4WD KIT which includes everything above:
15064302 (Left)
???????? (Right) --probably 15064303 but I am NOT certain!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2WD:
88935975 (Left Backing plate)
88935977 (Left Shield)

88935976 (Right Backing plate)
88935978 (Right Shield)

88935980 (2 Required, one for each side- Brake kit which includes lever, rod, pawls, e-brake lining and springs)

2WD KIT which includes everything above:
15773308 (Left - Complete left kit)
15773309 (RIGHT - Complete right kit)

------------------------------------------------------------------

A Second Gen F-Body would use:

A Left 4WD Kit and a Right 2WD Kit:
15064302 (Left - Complete left kit from 4WD)
15773309 (RIGHT - Complete right kit from 2WD)

[pontiac_banshee]

You cant beat this setup unless you find some deals that no one else can match!
WHY?

1.) All new parts (except calipers of course) no knee deep in junkyards and find the part you just took 1/2 hour to remove is bad (been there and done that for 30 years)
2.) Scarebird mounts are far better looking than factory and you don't have to spend 2 hours taking all the grease off of them and cleaning them.
3.) The guy at calipershop (ebay) treated me more than fair. Not sure of where his prices are at now but I got a fully loaded set from him with EVERYTHING but bacon bits!
4.) Take a look at my pics so far (earlier post) and will have more this weekend.

The factory setup looks like it will run in the $600 to $700 range and as I said from the start this is why I was going to an after market kit.


thecalipershop@verizon.net Supplied the fully loaded calipers - $140 SHIPPED
NAPA Rotors !USA Made! - $90 pair not the cheap $30 China or Malaysa Junk with casting flaws. The rotor I looked at from India (Autozone) had all sorts of cosmetic flaws

ScareBird Mounts AWESOME CADMIUM PLATED- $100 shipped

NAPA Brake hoses - $15 pair
NAPA Lug Nuts (have to be 1/4 longer than stock) - $16
Turn Axles $60
Rear E-Brake cable $75 SHIPPED for pair


OK all set and DONE $496 and as MC Hammer said so many years ago YOU CANT TOUCH THIS!!!





Other items that you have to think about




I did not ahve to sandblast or clean any of these parts and no time at the junkyard

[myckee]

Well no grease on the new GM stuff and no trolling junkyards either.

I like the S10 kits not only becasue they are using all new GM parts but also for fact that the GM backing plates are BEEFY. The aftermarket ones appear thin and weak. I also like having the dust sheilds covering the rotors. As well, I do not think the caddy/TA ratcheting calipers are very good and is why I am getting rid of that system.

All US pricing for all NEW parts. Parts from partszoneonline and partsamerica and napa:

Backing plate kits: $230 pair
Fully Loaded Calipers: $155 pair
Raybestos rotors: $34 pair
Raybestos brake hoses: $44 pair
E-brake cables: $50 pair
NAPA wheel studs: $16

Total: $527 for all new(except calipers) parts.

[myckee]

Some pics of the GM backing plates and sheilds only:

[Scarebird]

Those are nice; I wish I could dope out and economical way to use these on bolt on axles. Another way to trim cost may be to use 1982-95 S10 2WD front calipers- very cheap and quite effective if the brackets work.. I will take a look at this calipershop guy; usually somebody like him does a superior job than some poor bugger at Cardone making $8 an hour.

[Steve Barcak]

I put disc brakes on the back of my GTO about 10 years back. They have about 130,000 miles on them now and work great. I just bought the set up off of a79-80 Eldorado/Seville ( 4 3/4" bolt pattern) at a self serve yard for almost nothing. I did turn the axle flange dia down so the rotors fit and I think I elongated a few of the holes on the brackets too to fit the housing, no big deal. Again, 130,000 mi in my '72 GTO 455HO 12bolt, they work great. I am about to put another 4,000-5,000 on them now as I take her for a ride across the US and back. It is really nice to have excellent brakes!

Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org
"Real Pontiacs only...no corporate nonsense!"

[Scarebird]

Banshee, where is this caliper guy?

[myckee]

Originally Posted by Scarebird

Banshee, where is this caliper guy?

I think he means this guy, but it seems like he doesn't have regular stock of stuff. It is just one off sets for this and that.

http://stores.ebay.com/The-Caliper-Shop

EDIT: Actually I just checked some of his posts and he indicates that he is a "full Line remanufacturer" so maybe if you contact him with a specific part he can get it?

[pontiac_banshee]

I truly am not a fan of the factory look and that was part of my criteria. I wanted the look of race without the entire price.
I do not like the dust covers and as far as beefy I think that needs to be addressed by Scarebird. I looked at their mounts and these are not paper thin mounts and do not bolt on just two sides of axle housing like all the kits I have seen. These are beefy.

Need to clarify some items with the posts in this thread as they do not jive.
Want to make sure we are talking apples to apples here.

In early post it was said rotors were $34 for each side and now in the later post they are now $30 for the pair? Raybestos does not mean US made. My opinion of the overseas rotors were junk compared to the US made ones.
You also said semi loaded calipers were $82 ($164) and then in later post they are only $155 fully loaded.
I take it you do not have to turn down the axles with the factory parts?
Where are you getting custom cables made? Please let me know as I can save $25 and bring the cost of this kit to around the $450 mark.

[pontiac_banshee]

I did a paper on this about rebuilt items from overseas in 2001 for a class I was in. The overseas laborer in the plants are getting about $7 a day and as you can see from all the crap they are finally finding with toys and food the stuff they make is crap! I think over the next year or so there is allot more things that will come to light. It is not the workers fault even though they have found them to be poorly trained by managment.

As far as the rotors go. I was told by two separate retailers the overseas rotors cannot be turned at all. They are throw-aways. I was assured by Napa that there US made ones can be turned.

[myckee]

Originally Posted by pontiac_banshee

In early post it was said rotors were $34 for each side and now in the later post they are now $30 for the pair? Raybestos does not mean US made. My opinion of the overseas rotors were junk compared to the US made ones.
You also said semi loaded calipers were $82 ($164) and then in later post they are only $155 fully loaded.
I take it you do not have to turn down the axles with the factory parts?
Where are you getting custom cables made? Please let me know as I can save $25 and bring the cost of this kit to around the $450 mark.

Yes, as I said, locally, I bought the calipers for $85 CAN each and the rotors for $34 each. However to make an apples to apples price comparison, I used US suppliers for everything, since that is how you were pricing yours. The end result is less money for US customers as:
1. partsamerica.com does not ship to Canada
2. partsamerica has ridiculously low prices on these rotors
3. partsamerica has a good deal on the loaded calipers
4. Canadians always get shafted; its a fact of life

The brake cables are the stock brake cables for the s10 which you can customize yourself to fit on the car for free.

I personally use the cheap rotors on all of my cars and have not noticed any difference, in fit or function, other than one says "made in usa" and the other does not. But it is a matter of preference I guess.

[Scarebird]

Myckee- thanks for the link, will contact this guy, see what he has to say...

Banshee - you need to do the math. GM drum backing plates are 12 gauge, around 0.094 - 0.102" thick. And pressed into an offset shape. Our stuff is over twice as thick, better steel, and is in a single plane the whole way. Guys that make this out of 3/8 hot rolled plate do not have the engineering knowledge to realise all they are doing is adding unsprung weight.

[pontiac_banshee]

I am not trying to be a hard nose about any of the pricing but the reason I started the thread was to find out what was the best price for a system of High Quality. I wanted to walk someone through what I went through to find the parts and save them some time in this whole process.

I looked at GM systems and 2 complete kits on eBay and 1 off the internet but no one seemed to have a kit that had it all. The sales pitch for them were incomplete as no one added the price of turning down the axles in their estimate of price. Others had E-Brakes that may or may not work with your model of GM. What I got from everyone was cooperation and help finding other vendors that made my decisions much easier and saved me tons of time.

I did allot of checking and probably bothered Scarebird a few too many times with all my calls prior to buying his mounts.

Scarebird didn’t even need to do the math. As soon as I received the mounts I could see they are awesome looking and very light. The cadmium plating was worth waiting for as it looks great. When installing I found the fit was perfect. You are never going to bust these mounts! This was the only aftermarket mount that used all four axle holes and didn’t need to be shimmed to get alignment between rotor and caliper. The added feature that none of the others had was the integrated tab for the brake hose. Other kits required welding tabs on the rear-end.

I will be showing better pics of the items I am installing this weekend.
THIS YEAR YOU CAN BE THE DECIDER

[myckee]

It looks like you have pieced together a nice kit banshee. My only reason for posting was to show people that for around the same money, there are other options. It is up to the reader to decide what he/she wants to use etc. As well, since the HPP article was mentioned, I wanted to help clarify the info in the article and post up the corrections so no one made the same mistakes I did.

I ended up by buying the wrong parts becasue of the article and now have 2 Right 4WD backing plates and sheilds which I cannot use on my car. I had posted them for sale in the other forum for less than half of what I paid, but I guess no one is interested.

[cdoggy81]

GREAT info here!!! Thanks again to all 3 of you guys for contributing.