Car and Driver tests the new GTO...

[David Jones]

Lusty performance disguised as a phone-company fleet car. Sounds like the best stuff going for it is the neat red dials and the Corvette motor. 14 flat at 102 in the 1/4 mile. Moved the gas tank to the trunk. Bet that opened it up. Not quite 2 tons. Yeah thats a step in the right direction. Broken parts? Battery tie down. Stop lamp WAS held in by PLASTIC screws. Broken. A/C swithing on and off. Control button died on the passenger seat motor. hrs on a front end machine to align the front end. Right off. Got a neat rest reminder that pops up every two hours. Best thing about that car is that they only plan to make it for 3 years. GM could have done better. Or maybe not.

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/DavidJones69GTO.html

[David Jones]

Lusty performance disguised as a phone-company fleet car. Sounds like the best stuff going for it is the neat red dials and the Corvette motor. 14 flat at 102 in the 1/4 mile. Moved the gas tank to the trunk. Bet that opened it up. Not quite 2 tons. Yeah thats a step in the right direction. Broken parts? Battery tie down. Stop lamp WAS held in by PLASTIC screws. Broken. A/C swithing on and off. Control button died on the passenger seat motor. hrs on a front end machine to align the front end. Right off. Got a neat rest reminder that pops up every two hours. Best thing about that car is that they only plan to make it for 3 years. GM could have done better. Or maybe not.

http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/DavidJones69GTO.html

[gtoguy1967]

That 102 say it will do better. what kind of tires is this thing going to come with? The one in columbus had long tube headers and Good Year RSA Tires ???
Don

some times when you race with squarals you get your nuts cracked!

[GTO_2004]

i thought we had a 2004 GTO , forum section..

but since you want to start it up again in the lobby - here is a review from auto-week



“TURN IT ON, WIND IT UP, BLOW IT OUT, GTO”
It doesn’t feel like any other car in the General’s North American lineup, not even the Corvette with which it shares a powertrain. Steering feel is fantastic, not quite razor-sharp like the Z06’s but totally natural-feeling, quick, crisp and responsive. Refreshing, really, given the vague, artificial-feeling systems found in other Pontiacs like the Grand Prix. This system uses a power-assisted variable-ratio rack-and-pinion setup, but thankfully not of the Magnasteer variety. The wheel itself has a nice heft, its leather-wrapped four-spoke shape providing good grip as the steering gets weighty at higher speeds.



On the twisty roads around General Motors’ Milford proving grounds, the GTO simply shines, its chassis almost unflappable over road imperfections and through aggressively driven curves. Its four-wheel independent suspension—MacPherson strut and progressive springs in front, multilinks with semi-trailing arms in back—hunkers down nicely in the turns and rides almost flat. Its 17-inch 225/50R BFGoodrich GForce TAs give a good deal of grip, too, and help the four-wheel disc brakes—11.7-inch vented fronts and 11.3-inch solid rears—and four-channel antilock braking system pull the car to straight stops with little drama.



Its superior body control feels particularly fine when hustled full-on through tighter combinations of turns. Believe us, no ’64 (or 1965-74, for that matter) could even come close to handling like this. The original GTO was known as an asphalt burner, the original muscle car, but in stock trim it did little well in modern terms except accelerate down a straight.

The optional Tremec close-ratio six-speed manual transmission does a great job keeping you in the chunky part of the engine’s powerband. Then again, with such a flat, fat torque curve peaking at 365 lb-ft at 4000 rpm, it’s not asking too much. The shifter itself, however, makes playing with the tranny all the more fun, with a pleasantly notchy action similar to BMW’s in feel. It even has that satisfying spring-back-to-center pop when disengaged. We never got it to hang up or miss a shift.



If none of that sounds like genuine GTO stuff, then perhaps this will: Underhood, and powering the rear wheels, sits an all-American V8 engine. Differences abound, however, most due to the passage of time—and the learnin’ it brings—more than anything. This engine uses all-aluminum construction and sequential-port fuel injection in place of iron and carburetors, requires 92-octane fuel over leaded gas, and emits but a fraction of the noxious fumes of the engine of old. At least the overhead valves are still there.

Displacing 346 cubic inches, the GTO’s 5.7-liter LS1 V8 nonetheless cranks out more power than the original car’s 389-cid (6.4-liter) engine, with 350 horses at 5200 rpm vs. the Tri-Power’s 348 hp at 4900 rpm. For the super geeky, that amounts to 61.78 hp/liter specific output compared to the ’64’s 54.59, even if today’s car loses out in the power-to-weight department. At 3725 pounds, the smaller ’04 model outweighs the original Pontiac Tempest LeMans GTO hardtop by 599 pounds.

Despite its increased heft, Pontiac estimates the six-speed GTO will run to 60 mph from a standstill in just 5.3 seconds and turn the quarter-mile in around 14 seconds at more than 100 mph. According to the Standard Catalog of American Cars, the ’64 was good for but a 6.6-second 0-to-60-mph time and the quarter-mile in 14.8 seconds.



With all its handling and straight-line prowess, the GTO’s ride never approaches the too-harsh feel of out-and-out sports cars. The car moves smoothly over the road, its taut suspension reading every nuance without bursting a kidney, and transmitting a decent amount of information about what’s going on underneath your seat. The suspension rebounds quick-ly off of bigger bumps, without upsetting the car but never feeling the least bit wallowy. And only a minimal amount of road noise makes its way into the cabin.

But at wide-open, the passenger compartment echoes with a deviously tuned exhaust note, growling out of a true dual exhaust channeled through siamesed twin pipes tucked under one corner of the rear bumper. That grunt is perhaps the most GTO-like aspect of this muscle car built for 21st century tastes.

SITTING PRETTY

The GTO’s interior speaks fluent sports coupe lingo, with a clean but sporty style punctuated by tastefully inspired splashes of color coordinated to the car’s paint. The color-keyed gauges and door inset panels work well, particularly when paired with matching leather seats. And attention to the details—like the contrasting stitching on the steering wheel, shifter and parking brake, the uncluttered layout of the controls and the machine-drilled aluminum pedals—imparts to the GTO a true sports car character.



A true sports car for four, no less. Pontiac calls the GTO a 2+2, but the rear seat offers plenty of leg- and headroom for real-sized adults. A relatively low H-point helps out to that end, though the rear access feature Pontiac is so proud of makes climbing in and out of the back seat a chore. Tilt the front seat forward, push a button and a servo powers the front seat forward; flip the seat back, and the same button reverses the movement—but it’s sooo slow. A standard manual lever would make the whole process much more tolerable.

GET YER GOAT
The GTO should start rolling into Pontiac showrooms across the country within the month, with all 18,000 annually produced units slated for the States. And if you think all this performance will come with a price, you’re right, but it’s not an outrageous one. Stickers should fall around $33,000, north of entry-level Bonneville territory but less than a fully dressed Bonneville SSEi.

GTO will get only one option, the six-speed, that will add $695 to the bottom line. Everything else you’d expect from a car of its class comes standard: traction control (but no stability control), 200-watt Blaupunkt stereo with six-disc in-dash CD changer and 10 speakers, tilt and telescoping steering wheel, keyless entry, leather interior, floor mats, etc. So far, Pontiac says early sales orders are running 50/50 between the six-speed and the standard four-speed automatic, though the automaker expects final breakdowns to shake out to around 35 percent to the manual.

Second coming or no, this goat’s got the goods.



Australian RWD + American V8 - Now THAT'S what I call a "coalition".

[This message was edited by GTO_2004 on October 30, 2003 at 10:36 PM.]

[GTO_2004]

also the "car & driver" car was one of the thrashed test mules, and not a production car, even still i have not heard of these problems from other owners...

Australian RWD + American V8 - Now THAT'S what I call a "coalition".

[David Jones]

They did not call it a "thrashed test mule". They were somewhat dissappointed in the car. Especially the quality in general. Gas tank in the trunk? Read the article. The General has lost it.

<a href="http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/DavidJones69GTO.html" target="_blank">http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/Da...html</a>

[GTO_2004]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Jones:
They did not call it a "thrashed test mule". They were somewhat dissappointed in the car. Especially the quality in general. Gas tank in the trunk? Read the article. The General has lost it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you know it doesn't bother me one bit what they say, because ive driven and seen these cars and i know for a fact that they're very well built,and if this one had problems its not the norm.

Australian RWD + American V8 - Now THAT'S what I call a "coalition".

['ol Pinion head]

"At 3725 pounds, the smaller ’04 model outweighs the original Pontiac Tempest LeMans GTO hardtop by 599 pounds". If so the '64 GTO hardtop would weigh 3126 lbs... yeah sure, more like 3450 lbs w/o a driver & with only a few gallons of gas.

If C&D wants to do any kind of comparison with an original GTO, they need to get there facts straight. How many more errors fill this advertisement?

[GONZO]

14 flat? / 102....whose gonna run out to buy these?

40 years later same performance.
Yeah its alot more hi-tech, handles better, runs smoother, blah,blah,blah. who cares.

The people who bought the GTO then, bought it for one reason....that was to peel the paint off almost everything else on the road...and they did.
Plus tri-power looked cool as hell.

The new GTO is bland, IMHO

Bland looks and relatively bland performance.
It needs to be rated at 400HP to get someone's attention. Then add looks, etc.etc.
-------------------------------------

OPH is right try maybe 300 lbs heavier.

[judge_jury_executioner_69]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GONZO:
14 flat? / 102....whose gonna run out to buy these?

40 years later same performance.
Yeah its alot more hi-tech, handles better, runs smoother, blah,blah,blah. who cares.

The people who bought the GTO then, bought it for one reason....that was to peel the paint off almost everything else on the road...and they did.
Plus tri-power looked cool as hell.

The new GTO is bland, IMHO

Bland looks and relatively bland performance.
It needs to be rated at 400HP to get someone's attention. Then add looks, etc.etc.
-------------------------------------

OPH is right try maybe 300 lbs heavier.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i agree gonzo for $33,000 id expect more. if i wanted 14's id buy a mustang...actually id never buy a ford. but i want more then 14 sec 1/4 mile for that amount of money.

just because im 21 that dont mean i have to like imports

[HUMBLER]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Jones:
Lusty performance disguised as a phone-company fleet car. Sounds like the best stuff going for it is the neat red dials and the Corvette motor. 14 flat at 102 in the 1/4 mile. Moved the gas tank to the trunk. Bet that opened it up. Not quite 2 tons. Yeah thats a step in the right direction. Broken parts? Battery tie down. Stop lamp WAS held in by PLASTIC screws. Broken. A/C swithing on and off. Control button died on the passenger seat motor. hrs on a front end machine to align the front end. Right off. Got a neat rest reminder that pops up every two hours. Best thing about that car is that they only plan to make it for 3 years. GM could have done better. Or maybe not.

&lt;a href="http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/DavidJones69GTO.html" target="_blank"&gt;http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/DavidJones69GTO.html&lt;/a&gt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lusty performance! I love it, Autoweek and MT bascially said the same thing. Who ever said it was hot looking? Some of us like the style but most of just love the fact the General gave us such a great performing and refined 2+2. The other rags said it was the best fit and finish they've seen from the general. 2 to 1, we win. Sorry DJ.

You can grasp for straws all you want but GM couldn't be better in my eye.

Where did you want them to put the gas tank in the passenger seat? They had to make way for the dual exhaust and even more so, the seperated split dual.

Who cares it does 5.3, is more hi-tech, handles better, runs smoother? I would think anyone buying a car of this class these days? Good lord man??

You want more than 14? 13.62 according to MT. How's that? That beats all the Mustangs save the cobra, not bad for a 4 adult coupe. The Cobra killer will be here in 05 or 06, now that V10 deal may be an issue!

"the Humbler...the Humbler...G...T...O!"

[JohnS66GTO]

I haven't read the C&D article yet, so I guess I don't get the complaint about the gas tank in the trunk. Guess I'll have to read it, because plenty of cars have the gas tank in that general area.

As for the ET, there's way more to being an all-around performance car than ET. Personally, I have been on some drives through the mountains with great-handling cars, and found it much more fun to drive near the handling limits for an hour straight than to spend 14 seconds on a strip to nowhere. Don't get me wrong, I love acceleration, but I also like a balanced car. Back in the early 80's my friend's Mustang could kick my 4-cyl Fiero's butt in a drag, but he just disappeared in my rearview mirror on a curvy road. Even he admitted that my slow car was more fun to drive than his "fast" car.

I would much rather test drive the car before I judge it. Can't always trust the car mags.

John

[Nickv]

Motor Trend tested the 2004 GTO and got 13.6@104 out of it. So what does that tell you? It tells me that alot depends on the driver and track condition.

When I get mine I will let you know what it will do. I expect low 13's

[David Jones]

Cool, you 2004 GTO fans. I hope you REALLY enjoy em'.

&lt;a href="http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/DavidJones69GTO.html" target="_blank"&gt;http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/Da...html&lt;/a&gt;

[Nickv]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Jones:
Cool, you 2004 GTO fans. I hope you REALLY enjoy em'.

&lt;a href="http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/DavidJones69GTO.html" target="_blank"&gt;http://kurtspontiac.homestead.com/DavidJones69GTO.html&lt;/a&gt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will, just as much as I enjoy my classic Pontiacs.

[HUMBLER]

You are either a Pontiac fan or a Classic Pontiac fan, I understand the latter but certainly don't agree...

"the Humbler...the Humbler...G...T...O!"

[llorca]

Motor Trend absolutely loved the 2004 GTO!! They didn't have one negative to say about the car. And it sure seems like autoweek liked it too. So whats up with C&D? Pick up the Motor Trend article I was Impressed. BTW the car is shipping with 245 tires not 225's as tested by autoweek.

[ARAMP1]

I'm holding out for a new GTO Convertible

[cheesepocket]

A simple heads and cam upgrade will have this car in the high 12's, no doubt that and a blower will soon be available in the aftermarket. I found the Autoweek article to be somewhat uneducated, what's with comparing the hp of the 64 and the 2003? Don't these people know the difference between gross and net hp ratings? I emailed them and asked the same question.

Just a general-purpose motorhead

[Groundpounder]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nickv:
Motor Trend tested the 2004 GTO and got 13.6@104 out of it. So what does that tell you? It tells me that alot depends on the driver and track condition.

When I get mine I will let you know what it will do. I expect low 13's<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just to let you know, Motortrend does not test on a track. They test on a plain road surface. 13.62@104 is very good. With numbers like that we're going to see easy stock low 13s at the track. GMHTP should be coming out with a GTO test soon and they test at the track. Expect to see in the neighbourhood of 13.2-13.4 stock.

The GTO is heavy at 3800lbs. but that new LS1 cam is mighty beefy. Simple mods will see 12s, just like the F-bodies.