[chiphead]

I've got some slack in the center link where it attaches to the pittman arm. I can feel it in the steering wheel and went looking for root cause. The ball joint or whatever in the center link is worn, and is sloppy in its socket. Is this a safety issue or just an annoyance?

Who is the best source for center links, tie rod ends, etc for a front end rebuild? Will those steering parts work with UMI or SPC suspension parts? I've gotten good feedback in the suspension section, but need the steering parts too.

[67drake]

Watching. I have the same slop in the same joint on my GTO. It’s one of my over the winter projects. Just put new tires on this summer, and want them to wear normally, as well as be safe and have tight steering.

[kingbuzzo]

watching x2...my center link and rag joint is screwed

Where are you guys sourcing parts for those type of things?

[OG68]

I used Proforged center link and tie rods for my 70 El Camino
Made over there but very good quality.

66-67 center link - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p.../gto/year/1966

68-72 center link - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p.../gto/year/1968

64-70 tie rods - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p.../gto/year/1968

71-77 tie rods - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/p.../gto/year/1971

[JLMounce]

Yeah, time for a rebuild or replacement. If it's minor it's probably more of an annoyance than a safety issue, but knowing you are building this car to carve some corners, it certainly won't help that.

ProForged is about the best stuff out there right now. Taiwan made vs some of the cheaper Chinese made stuff. Even much of the Moog catalog is off-shore these days. If you have a local shop with the ability to actually rebuild the center link with quality ball joints, that is likely best. It'll cost the most though.

Also check your rag joint. There's a good chance this is also contributing to your steering slop.

And yes all of these replacement parts will work with the aftermarket suspension components that are designed around the factory frame. Even the ATS spindle if you end up going that direction.

[RocktimusPryme]

Ive said more than once that spending roughly $350 on the front end of my Firebird had a bigger effect on me having fun with the car than $10k in the engine did.

I replaced my:

• Steering gear with a 3rd gen (non IROC) box
• Pitman Arm
• New Rag joint to match the gear to the stock shaft.
• All the tie rods and steeing linkage from a cheap, probably chinese kit. I dont recall what brand.
• Proforged Idler Arm.
• Sway Bar End Links
• Paid for a common front-end alignment.

Car overnight went from borderline sketchy to drive, to feeling more or less like any modern car. Night and day difference. Huge bang for the buck in my opinion. If you think its probably time, and your steering feels a bit sloppy, you should do it. Im confident you wont regret it.

I have since also rebuilt the A arms with new bushings and added taller-than-stock upper ball joints. May have tightened up a bit more, but nothing in comparison to the improvement I got from rebuilding the linkage and getting a proper alignment.

I cannot rememeber if a center link came in the kit that I bought. That may be new as well, or may be the only original part in the steering linkage.

I would love to do the same for my 62, but linkage parts arent as common and cheap as F body parts. If you have a common A or F body, there is no excuse.

EDIT: I did also add quality Bilstein HD shocks to the front end at some point as well. These were also a night and day improvement over the cheap KYBs that were in there. You dont have to spend a million bucks, but invest a little in a decent shock on the front end. I think mine were like $80 each as opposed to the $20 KYBs that I put in when I first got the car. It makes a real difference in handling and ride quality.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

Ive said more than once that spending roughly $350 on the front end of my Firebird had a bigger effect on me having fun with the car than $10k in the engine did.

I replaced my:

• Steering gear with a 3rd gen (non IROC) box
• Pitman Arm
• New Rag joint to match the gear to the stock shaft.
• All the tie rods and steeing linkage from a cheap, probably chinese kit. I dont recall what brand.
• Proforged Idler Arm.
• Sway Bar End Links
• Paid for a common front-end alignment.

Car overnight went from borderline sketchy to drive, to feeling more or less like any modern car. Night and day difference. Huge bang for the buck in my opinion. If you think its probably time, and your steering feels a bit sloppy, you should do it. Im confident you wont regret it.

I have since also rebuilt the A arms with new bushings and added taller-than-stock upper ball joints. May have tightened up a bit more, but nothing in comparison to the improvement I got from rebuilding the linkage and getting a proper alignment.

I cannot rememeber if a center link came in the kit that I bought. That may be new as well, or may be the only original part in the steering linkage.

I would love to do the same for my 62, but linkage parts arent as common and cheap as F body parts. If you have a common A or F body, there is no excuse.

This. These cars didn't drive terribly when new. When I hear people say you should throw a rack and pinion in them because they drive like crap otherwise just tells me they drove a 50+ year old car with worn out everything.

[lovedemnewfies]

This place may have the center link. I’ve used their parts on my 65 GTO (center link) and fitment was great.

https://www.rareparts.com/

[gto4ben]

I posted how I rebuilt my center link on this forum last February here. I tried many reproduction center links a decade ago and the quality of the rubber around the studs was too soft and was no better than an original worn one. Perhaps the newer ones on the market are better.

[chiphead]

So next question, where is the best place to get front springs? I'd like 1/2" drop from stock. I'd also like them to work for spirited street driving, more so than drag race. The springs I've got now are soft drag springs, and the front is L-O-W. It drags on the pizza cutters in some turns.
It looks like a poster child for the '70s street machine era.

What is the proper way to measure for ride height?

[Kenth]

From 1966 Tempest Shop Manual:

[lovedemnewfies]

For new coil springs call these guys. They can make however you wish. I’m real happy with mine. https://coilsprings.com/

[gto4ben]

I use a self leveling laser level to measure ride height at the spec points.

[Joe-Touring]

I went with the Rare Parts centerlink. Nice quality, I think still made in the US but it was so long ago I can’t remember.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by chiphead

So next question, where is the best place to get front springs? I'd like 1/2" drop from stock. I'd also like them to work for spirited street driving, more so than drag race. The springs I've got now are soft drag springs, and the front is L-O-W. It drags on the pizza cutters in some turns.
It looks like a poster child for the '70s street machine era.

What is the proper way to measure for ride height?

I used Ridetechs new dual rate springs and have been happy with them, but they are more than a 1/2" drop.

100% honestly, if I had to do it over again, I would just go with adjustable coilovers. They arent that crazy expensive, and it just seems to me that the adjustability is worth its weight in gold. Plus changing coil springs gives me the heebie jeebies, so the coil overs seem safer.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

I used Ridetechs new dual rate springs and have been happy with them, but they are more than a 1/2" drop.

100% honestly, if I had to do it over again, I would just go with adjustable coilovers. They arent that crazy expensive, and it just seems to me that the adjustability is worth its weight in gold. Plus changing coil springs gives me the heebie jeebies, so the coil overs seem safer.

Unfortunately the ones that "aren't priced too bad" are prone to failure. They are typically constructed from an off the shelf large body shock with a threaded sleeve pressed on with a perch. In real world driving situations that sleeve has a tendency to fail and drop off the shock body. I know people personally that it occurred to with the QA1 stuff.

Coil-overs aren't designed for ride height adjustment. The shock is designed to be at a certain ride height to function properly. The adjustment you do have around that ride height is for corner weighting.

Beyond that, the design of the hybrid coil-over side loads the shock, creating yet another potential failure point.

If you go to an auto-x with a CAM-T class, you won't find those hybrid deals being run by anybody that is a frequent driver. People run stuff that can handle the repeated abuse. Mostly standard coil and leaf springs or the real high dollar stuff associated with aftermarket frames.

For a weekend car that gets driven to and from a car show, yeah they work. It sounds like Chiphead is building something that's going to get pushed pretty hard though.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Unfortunately the ones that "aren't priced too bad" are prone to failure. They are typically constructed from an off the shelf large body shock with a threaded sleeve pressed on with a perch. In real world driving situations that sleeve has a tendency to fail and drop off the shock body. I know people personally that it occurred to with the QA1 stuff.

Coil-overs aren't designed for ride height adjustment. The shock is designed to be at a certain ride height to function properly. The adjustment you do have around that ride height is for corner weighting.

Beyond that, the design of the hybrid coil-over side loads the shock, creating yet another potential failure point.

If you go to an auto-x with a CAM-T class, you won't find those hybrid deals being run by anybody that is a frequent driver. People run stuff that can handle the repeated abuse. Mostly standard coil and leaf springs or the real high dollar stuff associated with aftermarket frames.

For a weekend car that gets driven to and from a car show, yeah they work. It sounds like Chiphead is building something that's going to get pushed pretty hard though.

I wouldnt argue at all that you may want something different for racing applications, I may have missed where that was part of this equation.

I get that a shock is meant to operate in a certain area, but that area is usually a range. I feel like I would argue a little against something like a QA1 coilover setup being prone to failure. Just because the hot rod world is a small one, so things like cams going flat, or those glass fuel filters starting fires tends to make the rounds, and I just havent heard of QA1 or Viking Coilovers constantly failing. Maybe thats me trusting the butt dyno, but I just feel like I would have gotten wind of that.

Im not saying that every system doesnt have its flaws, and Im sure retrofit coilovers do have some drawbacks. But man they have been installed on a lot of projects at this point AND have been used within a small range to set ride height. I feel like it cant be that bad.

[chiphead]

Good debate guys. I have no experience with coil-overs, but if they require frame mods, I don't want to do that.

I measured the ride height. I get 9" in the front and 12" in the back. Not sure how its showing 9" in the front, with the front wheel so deep in the fender? It's a 26.5" tire in the front, so maybe that comes into play? The back is raised 2.5" to clear the 275 Nitto drag radials. It doesn't hop or hit the tires, but is a little stiff out back. I would have to change the rear tires to take the spacers out of the rear suspension.

How do you choose springs when going from a drag set-up to a road-handling setup? I'd like 9-10" in the back and 8.5" in the front with it all sorted out.

[JLMounce]

Where are you measuring ride height from? Measuring points at the frame is best, sheet metal isn't always hung exactly, even from the factory.

Hybrid coil-overs don't require frame modification. There are some true coil over systems that don't either, but those typically use the upper shock mount for the top mounting of the coil over. That part isn't designed to carry the weight of the car, only shock forces. The coil-over conversion I like the best because of that is the SpeedTech Performance Chicane kit. It cuts out the top of the spring pocket and you weld in a new double sheer mount. Cost is actually about the same as the higher end hybrid coil-overs, but you get the benefits of a true coil-over. These will also work with any of the aftermarket lowers as it uses a T-Bar lower mount with a spherical eye upper mount. The shock is actually longer as a result as well which gives you more compression travel. This allows you to run a softer spring to achieve the same wheel rates, but keeps ride quality better.

[Kenth]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Where are you measuring ride height from? Measuring points at the frame is best, sheet metal isn't always hung exactly, even from the factory.

See post #11.

FWIW