#21  
Old 10-22-2019, 02:17 PM
gtorich gtorich is offline
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I have the Stage III but frankly, if I was to do it all over, I would save up for the Detroit Speed set up..
https://www.detroitspeed.com/1964-19...ont-suspension
That is a great idea...………..I got the feeling im not ever gonna see these arms, I can see getting ripped off by some e bay fast talker, you would think with his business he would be a little more up front...……….im thinking if his lips are moving, he lying. lol

Rich

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Old 10-22-2019, 02:22 PM
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Did you get the lower arms as well? You're going to want those, at least at some point. The SPC arms will allow you to reach 5+ degrees of positive caster just in the uppers, but that's going to put the wheel pretty far aft in the wheel well and if you're running a wide tire, you may end up with some inner fender well scrub.

The lower arms are going to add 2* of positive caster inherently, by moving the ball join forward. This re-centers the spindle in the wheel well and allows you to run the caster you need without going crazy on the upper arms. So that's a highly recommended purchase and probably one I'd try to do direct through SPC, or have them give you the name of a company that's gonna actually get you the parts.

If you can't do those right away I'd keep your positive caster at or a bit below 3* initially. Then re-align when you can get the lowers in.

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Old 10-22-2019, 02:29 PM
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BTW, The stock 7/16" bolts will not work right with the SPC uppers. You need to drill everything out to 1/2. Then you will need SAE 6, 2" x 1/2" bolts and nuts.

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Old 10-22-2019, 02:31 PM
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Thanks Jason, I was gonna get the lower arms later, couldn"t afford it as of now, but after all this messing around, don't think I want to go thru Mark for the lowers, the only reason I bought from him, I liked the idea of tech support, but if his tech support is like his selling pratices im in big trouble.

Wonder if im just better off getting the umi upper & lowers arms and be done with the whole deal.

Rich

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Old 10-22-2019, 02:34 PM
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I'll bet if you put some time into it you could order the same parts he orders from Howe. I have one of there catalogs and it explains each product well.... The Howe ball joints are worth it. My steering is very responsive with a very fast snap back to center..

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Old 10-22-2019, 02:34 PM
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BTW, The stock 7/16" bolts will not work right with the SPC uppers. You need to drill everything out to 1/2. Then you will need SAE 6, 2" x 1/2" bolts and nuts.
This is getting better & better by the minute, Mark said I wouldn't have to do any kind of drilling with these arms.

If anyone is interested in these arms, let me know, I"ll cut you a way better deal and no wait time compared to buying them from Mark.

Rich

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Old 10-22-2019, 03:08 PM
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Just to update, I bought the stage 2 plus upper a arms from Mark, ordered them on July 17...…….called after waiting 3 months, Mark said, sorry, they are on the way, well today I get the ball joints, no arms...…….as usual not answering the phone.
Rich
Rich, are there any numbers from Howe on the ball joints. That way we could order straight from Howe..

  #28  
Old 10-22-2019, 03:25 PM
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Rich, are there any numbers from Howe on the ball joints. That way we could order straight from Howe..
389....the only numbers I can find on the howe joints are 13024, that's on both the upper & lower joints.

This whole deal has left a bad taste in my mouth, hope I can get my money back, im thinking its not gonna happen...…….don't know if I can dispute it with the credit card company 3 and a half months later, and I already paid them back.

Rich

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Old 10-22-2019, 03:47 PM
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Rich, are there any numbers from Howe on the ball joints. That way we could order straight from Howe..
Hey 389, that 13024 was on the rubber boot, called Howe, best he could figure out was the upper ball joint with a # 9 on the top stud, the housing # is 22339 and the stud # is 22389

The lower joint stud # is 22485 and the housing # is 22495.

With that said, he doesn't have any idea on how Mark matches these parts up, he"s not even sure these are the right numbers, he said the howe numbers are on the package they send Mark...………..which I don't have, just wrapped in bubble wrap.

Not sure how im gonna proceed...…….cant believe everyone is going thru this stuff with Mark.

Rich

  #30  
Old 10-23-2019, 03:32 PM
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When I spoke to Howe they cannot sell me the same joints he sells to Mark (proprietary agreement) and Mark's are beefier than the run of the mill Howe...

The SPC lowers should all be the same so you should be able to get them virtually anywhere....you should all SPC to confirm....

I was never told about drilling out the uppers, not a big deal for me but should be disclosed............

BTW the front sway bar showed up today lol

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  #31  
Old 10-23-2019, 03:35 PM
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Oh, and Mark did confirm last week that SPC does install the Howe joints. I know this is what he said for certain as he gave me the choice to do it myself

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Old 10-23-2019, 05:10 PM
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My ball-joints came installed in the upper control arms when I received them. I opted for the NASCAR screw in type.

And yeah, if you want the howe joint that Mark markets with the system, you have to go through him. He developed them with howe so he gets license to sell them exclusively.

I'm not sure on the drilling. At least with my control arms both upper and lower on my 69 Firebird, they were true bolt on. No drilling, re-used stock hardware on the cross-shafts etc.

You can mimic the geometry change with the Pro-Forged .9" tall ball joint if you opt to back out of the purchase. The geometry will end up the same, but the Howe joint is superior in basically every way. Moves more freely and fluidly, has about 2x the beef behind it, shields the tall section of the joint, is coated for anti-corrosion and that's before you look at the metallurgical properties.

That said, I've run the Pro-Forged joints and they are fine. The only situation I wouldn't really put them through without frequent changes, or going to that better Howe joint would be high speed road course stuff on R compound tires. If all your doing is street driving, maybe some back-roads and auto-x, the pro-forged joints are fine.

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  #33  
Old 10-23-2019, 05:42 PM
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Oh, and Mark did confirm last week that SPC does install the Howe joints. I know this is what he said for certain as he gave me the choice to do it myself
Ken, got a message from Mark today, he had some personal issues that he wasn't able to get to me, said sending out the arms tomorrow, will call him to confirm this stuff.

Rounding out this new geometry are SC&C package specific SPC Performance adjustable tubular upper A arms, and ride height adjustable tubular lower A arms WITH THE HOWE TALL LOWER BALL JOINTS INSTALLED

I see this on the website but only for the stage 3 upper and lower arms, nothing like that on the stage 2 stuff that I can see.

But I see Jason got his installed beforehand, so who knows, all I know is I have the ball joints here with me. lol

Im thinking for the lowers the number is 94344, which I can get from summit or jegs, but they don't come with the ball joints installed...……..all this stuff is getting confusing.

Right now, not sure what im gonna do with the spc stuff, not sure I even want to fool around with the lowers...……….for what I do with the car, im thinking the umi uppers & lowers would be good enough for me...…...anyone running these. ??

Also thanks guys for taking the time out to help me on this.

Rich

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  #34  
Old 11-05-2019, 04:57 PM
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UMI is an excellent company. Just don't go for any poly bushings. I was going to go with them but the salesman kept pushing poly on me so I went with Mark. They should know better, there in Pennsylvania, they know how badly poly binds up on these crazy steep roads we have here. If I was to do it all over, I would be talking with Detroit Speed.. I just love the way they have there caster adjustment. They are the only brand that slides the upper straight back to add caster..

I don't say this much but you can get 10 degrees positive caster using stock parts, just switch the upper control arms from side to side. I drove my car like that for 10,000 miles with zero issues.. Handled way better then factory..


Last edited by 389; 11-05-2019 at 05:03 PM.
  #35  
Old 11-05-2019, 05:01 PM
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Well all my parts arrived last week, confirmed by my office manager.. I've been on the east coast. Guess I should have everything now.

Rich
BMR makes some nice stuff too...and I'll let you know if all my balljoints are installed when I get back

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Old 11-05-2019, 05:10 PM
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I have BMR 2" lowering springs they are very nice springs and have my car sitting perfect..

This stuff can be such a headache. But I have to say, Mark is a good guy who has helped thousands of hobbyists out and never tried to get rich on our love for the GM A body... The last time I talked to him he was having some kind of health issues but I cant remember what it was..

  #37  
Old 11-05-2019, 05:17 PM
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Well hopefully it's nothing serious. He never mentioned anything.

I went with the BMR double adjustable lowers, and front and rear reinforcement bars

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  #38  
Old 11-06-2019, 06:36 PM
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Well, just to add to this, got my arms the other day, wrong bushings in them, called Mark and said to send the bushing to him, I got the rubber ones, and he will send me the Delrin ones.

Not sure if this makes any difference one way or the other the way I drive, its only for the street.

Rich

  #39  
Old 11-08-2019, 10:09 PM
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So I am back home, opened up all the boxes and everything seems to be here. All looks beefy and quality parts. I guess the only thing I see odd is none of the ball joints were installed. My understanding was that is part of the wait time so that I didn't have to take them somewhere to have them pressed in. The uppers are the screw in style, but I don't have a press so I have to get that done, not the end of the world but I guess I could have gotten the arms anywhere and just ordered the joints from Mark...although I would have been waiting either way....

Who else had ball joints installed on arrival? Even the instructions state the screw in ones come installed and the lowers.

12 weeks of waiting. Glad its done.

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  #40  
Old 11-10-2019, 11:35 AM
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Ended up with two set of front shocks , no rears.

I ordered a ball joint socket for the screw in ball joints. Got the lower ones pressed in.

I'm not sure why but after installing the spindles and tightening the castle nuts the hole isn't exposed for cotter pin for the upper joint. May have to reassemble.

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6.0 cert. Fiat bodied altered blown alcohol Pontiac IAII-Sold
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